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    Cockpit T-34/85 sugestions & questions

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    xzimit

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    Join date : 2016-09-03

    Cockpit T-34/85 sugestions & questions

    Post by xzimit on Sun May 14, 2017 5:25 pm

    The STA3.1 and the T-34-85 cockpit is very good, but I find some problems:

    1. The periscope of commander, gunner, loader can't move by player, they also can't look up and down.

    photo n1:



    Look at these pictures, if I move my mouse, it only move the turret, not the periscope, the AI can move periscope, but AI also can't move it up and down, the three periscopes on turret all have these problems.

    2. The aiming sight
    (1) The vision of aiming sight is too narrow than real tank, T-34-85 use Tsh-16 telescopic articulate, it has 4x Magnification and 16 degree field of vision, but in game it is too narrow.
    (2) The scale division of telescopic is not right.

    The telescopic sight in game:
    The telescopic sight in game:

    Tsh-15:
    The Tsh-15 telescopic sight of T-34-85 modle 1943 (with D5T gun) and Su-85

    Tsh-16:
    The Tsh-16 telescopic sight of T-34-85 modle 1944/1945 (with S-53 and Zis-s-53 gun) and Su-85

    Sights of Soviet Tanks:
    Sights of Soviet Tanks, it mention that T-34-85 use Tsh-16 telescopic articulate, which has  4x Magnification and 16 degree field of vision:

    The link is: http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaww2/weapons/sign_tanks.htm

    Both the aiming sight and the scale division of telescopic need to be fixed.

    3. According “Руководство по материальной части танка Т-34″. – Военное издательство Министерства вооруженных сил СССР, Москва, 1949 г.(“Manual to the material part of the T-34″- Military Publishing House of the Armed Forces Ministry USSR, Moscow, 1949), T-34-85's turret traverse speed should be 25 degrees per second, but in game, I feel that the turret traverse not so fast, I don't know is it right, so if possible, please check it.


    4. There are also some suggestion:
    (1) Make a T-34-85 modle 1944 late or 1945, which has the new commander tower, the periscope  and the hatch of tower can turn 360 degree, some T-34-85s' commander periscope even has a binocle:

    The periscope with a binocle:
    The periscope with a binocle:

    The periscope can up and down:
    The periscope can up and down:


    The periscope can turn right and left:
    The periscope can turn right and left:

    The commander turret hatch can be turn 360 degree:

    The commander turret hatch can be turn 360 degree:


    The commander turret of T-34-85 have two type:
    (2) The commander turret of T-34-85 have two type:

    The A type have two hatch, one is open forward, the other open backward, the B type have one hatch, it open forward.
    We often think the A type hatch can't turn 360 degree, B type can turn 360 degree, but few days ago, I found some videos which I visit the tank museum in my country, I find that the A type hatch can also turn 360 degree.

    So I suggestion that, in game, when turn around the T-34-85's periscope, let the hatch move, not the periscope, because in real world, when the commander use periscope to look around 360 degree, he must turn the hatch, the periscope is on his front, if he turn periscope to backword, he can't see the observation window of periscope.


    There are many details can be find in videos "Inside the Chieftain's Hatch: T-34-85":
    Episode 1::
    Episode 1:
    Episode 2::
    Episode 2:

    The videos is good, but I don't identify some Chieftain's views, for example:
    1. He said the loader has no seat, loader are standing in combat, but in fact the T-34-85's loader has the seat, the tank in video just lost it, the loader also needn't standing in combat, there are many  bullets in turret, loader can load them easily by seating on his seat.

    2. He said shift gear is hard, but he just shift the gear with a wrong way, the shift bar arm has a pick to lock the gear, look at the picture:
    Photo N2:

    He shift gears without holding the pick, of course that shift hardly. Maybe T-34-85 shift the gear not as easy as our home car, but it won't very difficulty.

    3. He said T-34s are produced as consumables, T-34 is not a crafts, but it is a powerful weapon, can used for decades, not consumables.
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    will73
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    Re: Cockpit T-34/85 sugestions & questions

    Post by will73 on Sun May 14, 2017 7:39 pm

    1. На Танки Т-34-85  зр.1944-весна1945.року (в грі), ставились МК-4 (прилад крутиться на 360гр. та має 2 дзеркала для огляду спереду та позаду ).
    On the T-34-85 1944 spring 1945 (in game) there were installed sight MK-4 (360 rotation degrees. It has 2 mirrors for the front and rear views).

    xzimit wrote:The Tsh-16 telescopic sight of T-34-85 modle 1944/1945 (with S-53 and Zis-s-53 gun) and Su-85

    Це ТШ-16 який ставився на Т-44 і Т-34-85 з літа 1945року. Він стоїть зараз на танку Т-44.
    It is Tsh-16, installed on T-44 and T-34-85 since summer 1945. T-44 has it now.

    На Т-34-85 зразка 1944року і весни 1945року ставився ТШ-15 (Танк Т-34 Керівництво по експлуатаціїї 1944р.)

    Tsh-15 installed on T-34-85 at during 1944 and spring 1945. Manual 1944.

    На деякі танки Т-34-85 зразка 1944року ставили приціл 10Т-15

    Some T-34-85 had sight 10T-15 during 1944.

    xzimit wrote:The periscope with a binocle:
    Це панорама ПТК-1 модернізація 1950 років, або польський (чешський) випуск Т-34-85
    It is a panoramic sight PTK-1 mod. 1950 or T-34-85 produced in Poland/Czechoslovakia.

    2.
    xzimit wrote:The Tsh-15 telescopic sight of T-34-85 modle 1943 (with D5T gun) and Su-85
           В грі у Т-34-85 немає гармати Д-5Т (там зовсім інша башта) тому і сітка ТШ-15 використана для 85мм гармати С-53.
    3.  Використовувалось Керівницто по експлуатації танку Т-34 1944року (в керівництві 1949 року- танк Т-34-85 зразка літа 1945-в грі не присутній. )
    T-34-85 has not gun  D-5T in the game. There was a differ turret, that's why gunsight reticle was used for the gun C-53 85mm.
    3. T-34-85 mod. summer 1945 is absent in the game.

    4.
    xzimit wrote:The commander turret hatch can be turn 360 degree:
    В моделі танку та кокпіті Т-34-85 зр весна 1945року ця можливість є (зараз вимкнута в налаштуваннях).
    T-34-85 early (spring 1944) has ability to rotate a commander cupola.
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    mechanic

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    Cockpit T-34/85 sugestions

    Post by mechanic on Sun May 14, 2017 8:29 pm

    xzimit wrote:1. The periscope of commander, gunner, loader can't move by player, they also can't look up and down.
    Did you press "T/Y" keys to rotate periscope?

    xzimit

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    Join date : 2016-09-03

    Re: Cockpit T-34/85 sugestions & questions

    Post by xzimit on Mon May 15, 2017 7:05 am

    mechanic wrote:
    xzimit wrote:1. The periscope of commander, gunner, loader can't move by player, they also can't look up and down.
    Did you press "T/Y" keys to rotate periscope?

    Yes, I forgot use "T/Y" keys.

    But the "T/Y" keys can only move the periscope left and right, the periscope still can't look up and down.

    xzimit

    Posts : 9
    Join date : 2016-09-03

    Re: Cockpit T-34/85 sugestions & questions

    Post by xzimit on Mon May 15, 2017 7:41 am

    quote:
    will73 wrote:1. На Танки Т-34-85  зр.1944-весна1945.року (в грі), ставились МК-4 (прилад крутиться на 360гр. та має 2 дзеркала для огляду спереду та позаду ).

    Це ТШ-16 який ставився на Т-44 і Т-34-85 з літа 1945року. Він стоїть зараз на танку Т-44.

    На Т-34-85 зразка 1944року і весни 1945року ставився ТШ-15 (Танк Т-34 Керівництво по експлуатаціїї 1944р.)


    На деякі танки Т-34-85 зразка 1944року ставили приціл 10Т-15


    Це панорама ПТК-1 модернізація 1950 років, або польський (чешський) випуск Т-34-85

    2.  В грі у Т-34-85 немає гармати Д-5Т (там зовсім інша башта) тому і сітка ТШ-15 використана для 85мм гармати С-53.

    Maybe we are both wrong, the D5T and S-53, Zis-s-53 have the same ballistic curve, if Tsh-16 is used in 1945, that's mean Tsh-15 is used on D5T and S-53, Zis-s-53 in whole 1944, I find a picture about T-34-85's Tsh telescopic  here:

    This picture is also the telescopic vision of "T-34 vs Tiger" game.

    In the second half of 1944, the BR-365P APCR and BR-365K AP are sent to T-34-85s to use, so I think this division of telescopic is used in early time Tsh-15, because there are only BR-365A APBC:


    Then in the second half of 1944, because the new BR-365P APCR and BR-365K AP, the division of Tsh-15 had changed to this:


    Both of them are Tsh-15 for D5T, S-53 and Zis-s-53 used, but both of them are different with the game used, and compare with other Soviet division of telescopic, the division type and scale of telescopic in game are unreasonable, so I still think the T-34-85 telescopic's scale division need to fixed.
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    will73
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    Re: Cockpit T-34/85 sugestions & questions

    Post by will73 on Mon May 15, 2017 1:31 pm

    quote:

    xzimit wrote:

    Maybe we are both wrong, the D5T and S-53, Zis-s-53 have the same ballistic curve, if Tsh-16 is used in 1945, that's mean Tsh-15 is used on D5T and S-53, Zis-s-53 in whole 1944, I find a picture about T-34-85's Tsh telescopic  here:

    This picture is also the telescopic vision of "T-34 vs Tiger" game.

    In the second half of 1944, the BR-365P APCR and BR-365K AP are sent to T-34-85s to use, so I think this division of telescopic is used in early time Tsh-15, because there are only BR-365A APBC:


    Then in the second half of 1944, because the new BR-365P APCR and BR-365K AP, the division of Tsh-15 had changed to this:


    Both of them are Tsh-15 for D5T, S-53 and Zis-s-53 used, but both of them are different with the game used, and compare with other Soviet division of telescopic, the division type and scale of telescopic in game are unreasonable, so I still think the T-34-85 telescopic's scale division need to fixed.


    На малюнку 1 і 2:  сітка прицілу ТШ-15 але малювали недавно і трохи неправильно  
    Поясню чому, відповідно до  Танк Т-34  Керівництво по експлуатації  1944рік. (скріни в попередньому пості- якість погана, але кращої в мене не було)
    1. приціл ТШ-15 шкала БР  дальність 5200м (52) на малюнках 1-2 шкала БР на 3800м(38)
    2. приціл ТШ-15 шкала ДТ  дальність 1500м (15) на малюнках 1-2 шкала ДТ чомусь взагалі на 200м(2) загубити цифру 1
    Але в цілому схоже на приціл ТШ-15.
    Let's take Fig.1 and Fig.2: it is the gunsight reticle TSH-15, but figure was recently drew and a bit wrong.
    Let's explain, according to the "T-34 Manual Operating 1944" (see the screens in my above post. Unfortunately, it is in a bad quality, but that's what I've).
    1. reticle TSh-15, scale AP, distance 5200(52) at the pictures 1-2 a scale AP on the distance 3800(38)

    На малюнку 3:  не сітка прицілу ТШ-15 а сітка прицілу ТШ-19  100мм гармата зр.1944 року (САУ Су-100)  
    Поясню чому- скріни
    There is on the Fig.3 NOT a gunsight reticle Tsh-15, it is Tsh-19 of the 100mm gun mod.1944, SPG SU-100.



    В грі присутні 2 танки Т-34-85
    1. Т-34-85 випуску весна - літо 1944року. 85мм гармата С-53 приціл ТШ-15              На деяких танках перших серій могли бути  встановлені приціли 10Т-15
    2. Т-34-85 випуску літо 1944року - зима 1945року . 85мм гармата С-53 приціл ТШ-15 На деяких танках останніх серій могли бути  встановлені приціли ТШ-16
    The game has three types of the T-34/85:
    1. early, spring-summer 44. 85mm gun C-53, Tsh-15. Well, in reality some first tanks had reticle 10T-15.
    2. late/ekran, summer 44- winter 45. 85mm gun C-53, Tsh-15. In reality some last tanks were equipped with reticle Tsh-16 also.


    Не присутні в грі
    1.  Т-34-85 випуску зима -весна 1944року. 85мм гармата Д-5Т приціл 10Т-15 або ТШ-15
    2.  Т-34-85 випуску січень 1945 року- до кінця випуску. 85мм гармата ЗІС С-53 приціл  ТШ-16
    The next tanks are absent in the game:
    1. production winter-spring 45. 85mm gun D-5T, reticle 10T-15 or Tsh-15.
    2. production Jan 45- end year. 85mm gun ZIS C-53, reticle Tsh-16.

    xzimit

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    Re: Cockpit T-34/85 sugestions & questions

    Post by xzimit on Mon May 15, 2017 4:40 pm

    quote:
    will73 wrote:
    На малюнку 1 і 2:  сітка прицілу ТШ-15 але малювали недавно і трохи неправильно  
    Поясню чому, відповідно до  Танк Т-34  Керівництво по експлуатації  1944рік. (скріни в попередньому пості- якість погана, але кращої в мене не було)
    1. приціл ТШ-15 шкала БР  дальність 5200м (52) на малюнках 1-2 шкала БР на 3800м(38)
    2. приціл ТШ-15 шкала ДТ  дальність 1500м (15) на малюнках 1-2 шкала ДТ чомусь взагалі на 200м(2) загубити цифру 1
    Але в цілому схоже на приціл ТШ-15.
    Let's take Fig.1 and Fig.2: it is the gunsight reticle TSH-15, but figure was recently drew and a bit wrong.
    Let's explain, according to the "T-34 Manual Operating 1944" (see the screens in my above post. Unfortunately, it is in a bad quality, but that's what I've).
    1. reticle TSh-15, scale AP, distance 5200(52) at the pictures 1-2 a scale AP on the distance 3800(38)

    На малюнку 3:  не сітка прицілу ТШ-15 а сітка прицілу ТШ-19  100мм гармата зр.1944 року (САУ Су-100)  
    Поясню чому- скріни




    В грі присутні 2 танки Т-34-85
    1. Т-34-85 випуску весна - літо 1944року. 85мм гармата С-53 приціл ТШ-15              На деяких танках перших серій могли бути  встановлені приціли 10Т-15
    2. Т-34-85 випуску літо 1944року - зима 1945року . 85мм гармата С-53 приціл ТШ-15 На деяких танках останніх серій могли бути  встановлені приціли ТШ-16

    Не присутні в грі
    1.  Т-34-85 випуску зима -весна 1944року. 85мм гармата Д-5Т приціл 10Т-15 або ТШ-15
    2.  Т-34-85 випуску січень 1945 року- до кінця випуску. 85мм гармата ЗІС С-53 приціл  ТШ-16

    Er...... I'm sorry to say that I can't understand your posts clearly, I had to translate your words to my language by google translate, then I translate and post my words in English Shocked , so if you can post with English, I'll very glad and understand more easily. Laughing

    Why I think the T-34-85 telescopic's scale division need to fixed? Because some years ago, I visited a tank museum in China and got in T-34-85 for a look, I see its details carefully and try many functions, I try its telescopic and know how its division is.

    This T-34-85 is a early 1944 modle, which has a two open parts hatch commander tower, it comes from USSR and equipped China Army in 1950s, usually, USSR won't give their best weapon to other countries, this T-34-85 is used in WWII and with no improvment like the 1950s' telescopic, so I think its telescopic has no change from 1944 early.

    By checking this T-34-85, I found that T-34-85's two open parts hatch commander tower also can turn 360 dgree.

    Maybe your original data and books are right, but I think to find a T-34-85 and to check it will also be a suitable way.
    If I misunderstand your views, please point out.
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    Re: Cockpit T-34/85 sugestions & questions

    Post by will73 on Mon May 15, 2017 6:53 pm

    xzimit wrote:This T-34-85 is a early 1944 modle, which has a two open parts hatch commander tower, it comes from USSR and equipped China Army in 1950s, usually, USSR won't give their best weapon to other countries, this T-34-85 is used in WWII and with no improvment like the 1950s' telescopic, so I think its telescopic has no change from 1944 early.

    xzimit wrote:(1) Make a T-34-85 modle 1944 late or 1945, which has the new commander tower, the periscope  and the hatch of tower can turn 360 degree, some T-34-85s' commander periscope even has a binocle
    Якщо в командира танку стоїть ТПК-1, тоді це модернізований танк після 1949 року. В них  приціли ТШ-16.
    In case Commander has sight TPK-1 (periscope with binocular viewer ), then it is modernized tank after 1949. They have Tsh-16.

    Приціли в грі (що там не правильно? нічого не розумію)
    Т34-85  приціл ТШ-15
    There are gunsight reticles in the game. I hardly can see what's wrong with them?


    Т-44 приціл ТШ-16
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    lockie
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    Re: Cockpit T-34/85 sugestions & questions

    Post by lockie on Tue May 16, 2017 7:10 am

    xzimit wrote:Why I think the T-34-85 telescopic's scale division need to fixed? Because some years ago, I visited a tank museum in China and got in T-34-85 for a look, I see its details carefully and try many functions, I try its telescopic and know how its division is.
    Hi, xzimit!
    Thanks for the detailed report!
    This is updated gunsight reticle Tsh-15 of the T-34/85. Plz, check it out in any missions of the Campaign Weapon of the victory (WoV).
    This patch is for testing purposes only. Here's installation order:
    1. SSM2.6
    2. Polygons v.1.0 Part 1, Part 2
    3. STA3.1
    4. 4Gb patch See details
    5. Apr_2017
    6. u03_MayUpd_2017
    7. Cockpit T-34/85 v.1.0 (optional)
    8.2. v.6.6 aspect 16:9 STA3.1 (only for the monitor 16:9, 1920x1080) after installation create a new user profile
    9. All missions opened v.3.3
    10. Weather mod (optional)

    Details:
    http://stasf2008.ephpbb.com/t805-sta3-1-testing

    BTW
    U may rotate commander cupola (cc) on early T-34/85, but it is uncomfortable, coz while u've a seat as ie gunner, AI commander rotated cc. Then u take the com. place(F3) and in unbuttoned view, u've a wrong position, coz cc was moved by AI.

    That's why this feature was commented on the next two models:
    1. T-34/85 autumn 44
    2. T-34/85 (ekran) spring 45

    U may fix it manually:
    1. open file:
    ...data\k42\loc_rus\levels\LEVELS\tech_cfg\t34_85.engcfg
    2. find entry in the block t34_85late()
    sig_commander,s_camera_comhead, mk4c,0.0, sig_commander, d_comhead_03;
    replace on
    sig_commander,s_camera_comhead,mk4c, 0.0, sig_commander,s_sigcom_head;
    3. save and play!

    xzimit

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    Re: Cockpit T-34/85 sugestions & questions

    Post by xzimit on Tue May 16, 2017 1:07 pm

    lockie wrote:
    Hi, xzimit!
    Thanks for the detailed report!
    This is updated gunsight reticle Tsh-15 of the T-34/85. Plz, check it out in any missions of the Campaign Weapon of the victory (WoV).

    Thanks, I will try it.

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    Re: Cockpit T-34/85 sugestions & questions

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