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    Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

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    Stah

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    Age : 44
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    Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Stah on Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:35 pm

    Probably everyone know this stuff - the awful
    driver-jerks-the-machine-just-when-I-was-shooting-my-last-AP-shell stuff
    Rolling Eyes (especially severe on some tanks, eg T-26, which I personally
    like for no apparent reason). Is it just some horrible bug, or the
    sophisticated simulation of the way the real ww2 tanks behaved? If it's
    the first, I have to say it's one of the biggest flaws of the great
    game. If the second, I love it, of course Laughing  tongue

    And the similar problem: what is this constant, slow movement of the
    gunsight (always counterclockwise)?? This I can't imagine to be
    simulation of ANY real tank feature... Do you have any thoughts on how to
    deal with it? In some missions - the sharpshooting ones - they just
    ruin the game.
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    33lima
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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by 33lima on Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:42 pm

    Never had the twitchy driver problem. I always fire from the halt (which I order beforehand, not a 'short halt') and the driver does as he's told. Only exception so far is German SP guns where the driver refuses to obey orders to spin the vehicle, typically when the bow gunner is engaging some troops or the tank commander has ordered a minor target engaged, and I want to shoot a more important one.

    Not sure it it's relevant, but I have the joystick disabled and play with the keyboard.

    The only time I have seen the gunsight view 'slipping' is when my whole vehicle is actually slipping, eg off a tree trunk or suchlike obstacle. Panzer Commander was much worse, on a slope tanks could roll back or slip sideways.

    Stah

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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Stah on Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:51 pm

    33lima wrote: I always fire from the halt (which I order beforehand, not a 'short halt') and the driver does as he's told.

    ?? Hmm... I shot from both, depending on situation. I tried to analyse what could I be doing wrong, but I came to nothing. But I'm sure I've read somewhere about this SF problem (to be precise: about BOTH these problems). I was sure it's common, actually.
    One minor mistake: it's not always counterclockwise, as I wrote. It sometimes happens to be clockwise, but it doesn't make me happy Smile

    [I play SF with the keyboard exclusively. Joysticks are for Rise of Flights, ArmAs and SpinTires's Very Happy - for really serious shit like Steel Fury and Silent Hunter there's only one option - keyboard Very Happy ]

    Technopiper

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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Technopiper on Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:51 pm

    33lima wrote:Not sure it it's relevant, but I have the joystick disabled and play with the keyboard.
    Ah! I need to try that. Thanks!

    Edit: I checked. "Disable joystick" was ticked on. I sometimes experience shifting crosshair. Very slowly to one side. Not a serious problem though, just need to compensate for it.
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    33lima
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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by 33lima on Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:57 am

    Just noticed the sight drifting very slowly to the right, in the Jagdtiger, when the vehicle was not moving. It seemed to be associated with using the mouse to aim. Switching to the arrow key seemed to stop it. Perhaps some mouse sensitivity setting, or a better mouse, might solve it...or maybe it was just tension in the lead on my non-cordless mouse, imperceptibly pulling the mouse slightly.

    Stah

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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Stah on Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:48 am

    I just tested the "joystick" option on and off - no change at all. Yes, I had
    the mouse hypothesis, but now I see it has probably something to do with
    3D models. The problem is practicalyy nonexistent with BT-7, for
    example. The same mission, the same settings, everything the same but
    player tank, and - jerking in T-26 and stillness in BT-7! Must be some 3D
    model issue; moreover, I noticed that turret turns in the same direction
    that the vertical axis of the vehicle is tilted: if the tank is leaning to the
    left, turret rotates to the left and so on - just as if the game
    physics made the turret turn under the barrel weight - but not in all models.

    Donken

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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Donken on Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:36 am

    There are lots of settings for both the wheels and the tracks regarding the traction and slipness and so on. Have you tested different numbers for that? I know you guys are talking about the turret. But even a 1deg change on the hull axis would move the sight quite a bit! So i think the problem lines in that the tank is actually moving!


    Last edited by Donken on Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:38 am; edited 1 time in total

    Stah

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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Stah on Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:37 am

    ? What settings do you mean?... Shocked

    Moving? Ok, but why not everyone experience this?

    Donken

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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Donken on Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:41 am

    When it happens to me it depends heavily on how and where the tank is standing. If it is on a bump or uneven terrain and so on.
    Check the vehicle config sticky. Under wheels() and cpillars()

    Stah

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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Stah on Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:45 am

    Ok, I'm familiar with the coefficients in this section. But still - if I haven't tweaked with them (except for spring stiffness) - why am I the only one... etc?

    Yes, I noticed - its connected with the ground and vehicle position. But also with the model, for sure. BT-7 is always stiff like a monument, T-26 always shaking.

    Donken

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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Donken on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:01 am

    I have no idea why noone else have tried. Maybe its to hard or they dont care Very Happy
    The reason to why you cant use the same settings all around is because the suspension geometry is different. Size of wheels, number of wheels, mass, spring stiffness and damping, suspension arm length and so on. So because one tank works and another one doesnt with the same settings is logical!

    And im pretty shure it has nothing to do with the models. Suspension and turret configs and all is not 3D model depandant. Its only scripts. The 3D model is only visual in about everything but the hitboxes!

    Stah

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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Stah on Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:17 pm

    Aha, I get it now. I noticed the coefficents in wheels/carets sections being identical in lots of tanks, as if copied from one another, and I wondered about that. So the driver cant just find stable position, you say. Ok, sounds like real reason.
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    lockie
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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by lockie on Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:55 pm

    Try to change the next values:
    //прицелы
    sights()
    {
    //название прицла, камера, описание прицела, болтание головой
    sig_driver, s_camera_driver, hole, 0.0;
    // sig_driver, s_camera_driver_02, hole, 0.0;
    sig_driver, s_camera_driver_01, hole, 0.0;


    on

    //прицелы
    sights()
    {
    //название прицла, камера, описание прицела, болтание головой
    sig_driver, s_camera_driver, hole, 0.1;
    // sig_driver, s_camera_driver_02, hole, 0.0;
    sig_driver, s_camera_driver_01, hole, 0.1;

    Stah

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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Stah on Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:00 pm

    Aha - I'll, try, but they seem like params for the degrre the head-camera is moving when you peek through hole ("boltanie golowoj") - and I noticed that in the case I descibed, every view is flowing - not only throuh the gunsight, but unbittoned, and even the outside view too! Shocked But thanks for a tip.
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    lockie
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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by lockie on Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:21 pm

    According to my exp. for gunsight there should be 0.0. For the hole/slit there should be 0.1.
    Check out cockpit also:
    data\k42\loc_rus\levels\levels\cocpits\coc_t26.engcfg
    Here is:
    , 0.04, sig_driver, 60.0, 6, -43, 43, -5, 10, true, 0, 0, 0.1, 0.05;
    change on
    , 0.01, sig_driver, 60.0, 6, -43, 43, -5, 10, true, 0, 0, 0.1, 0.05;

    Stah

    Posts : 108
    Join date : 2015-12-05
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    Location : Poland

    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Stah on Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:00 am

    Tried it. The values in "coc" files has nothin to do with shaking - they are simply the distances the camera is shifted behind your hero's head - for example, for value of 0.5 camera (e.g. in unbuttoned view) is about 1m behind your commander/gunner head - so you see everything from behind his head.

    As to these values in tech_cfg files - I can remember now: I fought with them months ago for days. I can't uderstand what's their role. Although now I suspect they can be responsible for these rotations of periscopes the AI do when you are on another workplace.

    Donken

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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Donken on Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:36 am

    lockie wrote:According to my exp. for gunsight there should be 0.0. For the hole/slit there should be 0.1.
    Check out cockpit also:
    data\k42\loc_rus\levels\levels\cocpits\coc_t26.engcfg
    Here is:
    , 0.04, sig_driver, 60.0, 6, -43, 43, -5, 10, true, 0, 0, 0.1, 0.05;
    change on
    , 0.01, sig_driver, 60.0, 6, -43, 43, -5, 10, true, 0, 0, 0.1, 0.05;

    About the _coc If i remember correct it is headbobbing. How much the camera moves when going on bumps. Im pretty shure i also wrote that in the translated config files. So changing that to a smaller number only makes the bobbing smaller =)

    Stah

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    Re: Gunsight view jerking (T-26)

    Post by Stah on Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:51 pm

    Donken wrote: About the _coc If i remember correct it is headbobbing.

    So it's what I thought. And that would be great. But no, they are not - try it; I tried them numerous times. They just shift the camera behind hero's head. "Hanging his head" - this is what I encountered in your (?) descriptive coc file; I assume now that it is part of the phrase: "How far the camera is hanging [behind] his head" or smth like this.

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