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    Buggy sound in scene

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    umut

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    Buggy sound in scene

    Post by umut on Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:13 am

    For some reason I have a very buggy sound in game in general. For example an enemy tank 1000 meters away shooting at some things on the horizon but I hear that like as if its shooting right next to me. Think about all the infantry and friendly tanks on the map engaging with the enemy, it becomes very chaotic. I wonder if this is a problem with the mod or the game or my installation order. Did you ever had this problem?

    This is mod to change default sound effects on the new, which mostly applied to sound scene inside the vehicle.
    It is recommended to create a new user profile to take all effects from the mod.

    INSTALLATION
    1. Steel Sound Mod 2.2 (SSM)
    2. STA 1.0
    3. SCE_1.0 www.4shared.com/rar/n-EZ6zJfba/v01_CSE_10.html
    4. GMP1.x (optional)
    5. GMP2.x (optional)
    6. GMP3.x (optional)
    7. current update
    8. Any Weather Mod (optional)

    v1.0
    1. initial release
    14.12.2015


    Last edited by lockie on Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:12 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added link to d/l mod.)
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    lockie
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    Buggy sound

    Post by lockie on Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:33 am

    umut wrote:enemy tank 1000 meters away shooting at some things on the horizon but I hear that like as if its shooting right next to me.
    Hi, Umut
    Welcome to the "buggy game" Smile
    This buggy sound caused by the game engine. It didn't bring with STA mod. BUT I think it's possible to fix somehow.
    There are some files, which are responsible for the sound adjusting, i.e. distance. If u're interested here's a link to the topic:
    http://stasf2008.ephpbb.com/t567-sound-effects-editing

    I.e. u may hear shot3d at the distance 3000 meters. Suppose, if u change value on 700 meters, then u can't hear hit sound at the distance more than 700 meters.
    shot3d, 0x90, 1, 2, 0, 0, 50.0, 3000.0, 1.0, _sfx, 0, true, 2, 0, 0.4;

    umut

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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by umut on Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:58 am

    Thank you for the quick answer lockie! I will take a look at your suggestions. And also thank you for your work, I recently bought the game and its mostly because of STA. I toght it would be selfish not to mention, so here you go cheers

    Stah

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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by Stah on Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:28 pm

    I think I can help a little here' cauce I experimented with the sound scene a lot. In the beginning, two serious problems:

    First - there is no distinction between "outer" (unbuttoned) sound scene (where you would hear everything normally), and "inner", when you would hear almost nothing from outside, but mostly the engine, your shots, sounds of shells being loaded/ejected and of course hits on your armour.
    Second - much worse - there is no separate volume level setting for your own shots and every other shots - and hits on your armour and another armour hits (same about the engine, bushes crushing etc).
    These two are serious immersion killers, I must say, and this is really unfortunate, cause in other aspects the game is REALLY IMMERSIVE as hell Smile
    Ok, now what I ascertained by starting the game all over again with only one sound layer "turn on" a time (I mean, its volume level set to 1, when another were set to 0) [one more thing: not every sound layer includes sounds, there are "empty" ones, and the names of some of the the "full" ones are misleading]:

    default2d - clicking on a map and its menus (during a mission)
    default 3d - higher register of all engine sounds and the sound effect of flame (burning vehicles, houses, and so on)
    inner3d - your inside sounds: gear box, hatches, turret rotating, shells loading
    shot3d - all shots and part of explosions (those explosions that are not caused by hitting any armour, but I'm not sure now)
    scream3d - 'generic' shouts of infantry - those random shouts around you (very importand if you're attacking trenches without external view: they can warn you that you're too near to a infantry-filled trench, which is potentially disastrous)
    expl3d - sound effects caused by projectiles hitting the armour: explosions, bangs, richochet effects, etc.
    colsounds - crushing trees / bushes
    ambient - overall ambient sound, set for every mission in the Editor - kind of background for other sounds
    console - talking throuh the speakers: your commends concerning loading shells and target indications
    airplane - self-explaining: airplane engines sounds
    engine - the lower register of all engine sounds (I set its max distance much higher than these in "default 3d", which gives the effect of low, indistinctive sound of approaching enemy if they're, say, 400m from you; and the distinctive, with tracks squeaking, etc, whan the're like 150m from you)

    All other layers I found to be "empty".

    After all this there is a question of setting all the values and distances to achieve the best possible sound scene - this should be made to personal taste, I think - besides this tweaking is lot of fun: you can completely change game experience with one number only Smile
    One other thing: there's a matter of personal playing style. I play exclusively from inside, so I set it all to achieve the "inside" sound scene (I can live with unrealistic sound when being unbuttoned - matter of persolan choice). Ppl playing mostly with outside wiev may want to set it up to the "outside" effect, I suppose.

    If you're interested in my "inside sound" settings, I can write them here, of course.
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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by frinik on Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:45 pm

    Please do. I have been looking at making hit sounds on the player's tank but with little or no results and sometimes crashes!

    Stah

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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by Stah on Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:59 pm

    frinik wrote:Please do. I have been looking at making hit sounds on the player's tank but with little or no results and sometimes crashes!

    Ok, but the issue you are reffering to is imho unsolvable (ok, I saw a slight chance for a second, but...) - as I pointed out above, to quote myself: "...there is no separate volume level setting for your own shots and every other shots - and hits on your armour versus another armour hits (same about the engine, bushes crushing etc)." So my setting just shorten the hearing distance of all battle sounds - it helps, but it doesn't provide REALLY realistic sound scene. But at least you don't hear amrour scratching on a tank 1,5 km away Very Happy
    And, above all - when you stick your head out of tank, it's unrealistic as hell, 'cause I aimed at creating inside sound scene...

    I thought making the actual sound sample of your hit as loud as it's possible (extreme sound dynamic compression - and then extreme high loudness level) and any other sounds significantly weaker, but... It was just for a second. This is unrealistic solutuion - for lots of obvious reasons... Anyway, it's imho the biggest immersion problem of SH. All others seem like a trifle.

    How should I provide my values? Copy/paste into post or send my whole file somehow?...
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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by lockie on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:21 pm

    umut wrote:Thank you for the quick answer lockie! I will take a look at your suggestions. And also thank you for your work, I recently bought the game and its mostly because of STA. I toght it would be selfish not to mention, so here you go  cheers
    cheers
    I'd like to note, there is no need to buy SF, coz devs won't get any profit from this buying. Moreover, they didn't get any profit for the game even after it was released.

    Stah wrote:I experimented with the sound scene a lot.
    That's a very interesting investigation! I'm ready to give it a try as a new "Improved inner sound" mod from u.
    Make it on the base of GMP(or Free camera mod) to install with JSGME. I mean remove everything except essential files and write the short readme.

    I know to take effect with a new mod u've to create the new profile. Also u have to edit at least two files:
    ...Steel Fury - Kharkov 1942\root\programs\k42game.program
    ...Steel Fury - Kharkov 1942\root\programs\k42menu.program
    Did u?

    And I'm interested how did effect parameter ambient? Can we decrease it? Or even overwrite with the last parameter group weight?
    As I've understood 2d does sound in the map, 3d during mission?

    Do u know how works flags?
    //DSBCAPS_LOCHARDWARE 0x004
    //DSBCAPS_LOCSOFTWARE 0x008
    //DSBCAPS_CTRL3D 0x010
    //DSBCAPS_STATIC 0x002
    //DSBCAPS_CTRLPAN 0x040
    //DSBCAPS_CTRLFREQUENCY 0x020
    //DSBCAPS_CTRLVOLUME 0x080
    That's a very tricky system, i.e. 082=080+002
    but I'm not sure: 080+020=100

    Stah

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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by Stah on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:37 pm

    lockie wrote: I'm ready to give a try as a new "Improved inner sound" mod from u.

    Yeah, I would have done it as a separate JSGM mod, if only for my own convenience, but I don't get this all packing/unpacking thing. As u know, I worked on an unpacked file, and they unpack in such a strange way I really don't know how to pack tyhem again - and for a mod they should be of course in a packed varsion.

    lockie wrote: I know to take effect with a new mod u've to create the new profile.

    ??? I just tweak with files and it works on the only profile I have - ?...

    lockie wrote: Also u have to edit at lest two files:
    ...Steel Fury - Kharkov 1942\root\programs\k42game.program
    ...Steel Fury - Kharkov 1942\root\programs\k42menu.program

    Oh, my... I only edited "k42game.program" - the sound layers, as I call them. Hm... so maybe there is much more to achieve there anyway? The inner/outer sound scene plus my/other tanks being hitten...

    lockie wrote: And I'm interested how did effect parameter ambient?

    This depends of the sound file used as ambient, I suppose. Tis layer I left unchanged - couse there was no immersion problem imho. Oh, I think I just lowered the volume... But it depends on the sound file used, e.g. the noise is ok, but the chirping should be minimized imho. There were no such brave birds even in USSR Smile


    lockie wrote: As i"ve understood 2d does sond in the map, 3d during mission?

    In my post I detailed my findings - yes, it's as you say, but not everything is intuitive there. Consult my post, please Smile

    lockie wrote: Do u know how works flags?

    Glad you mentioned it! I red your old post about flags somewhere, but I'll be frank with you - I don't get AT ALL Smile But I had an idea that the key to futher edition of sound scene may lie here... I just tweaked humbly with the volume level and max distances (btw., I don't the practical usability of min distance...)
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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by lockie on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:11 pm

    Stah wrote:
    I don't get this all packing/unpacking thing.
    Just make it as JSGME mod, then archive it with ie winrar, then upload sowehere, ie 4share and give here a link.

    lockie wrote: I know to take effect with a new mod u've to create the new profile.
    ??? I just tweak with files and it works on the only profile I have - ?...
    That was my guessing, perhaps we don't need to create the new profile. I need to check it out.

    Oh, my... I only edited "k42game.program" - the sound layers, as I call them.
    It's my another guessing, coz k42menu.program has the same variables like shot3d, so perhaps we should edit this file also.

    lockie wrote: And I'm interested how did effect parameter ambient?

    This depends of the sound file used as ambient, I suppose.
    OK, I think I've to decrease volume to 0.2.


    lockie wrote: Do u know how works flags?
    Glad you mentioned it! I red your old post about flags somewhere, but I'll be frank with you - I don't get AT ALL Smile
    Yeap, that's system is a very tricky Smile
    Example:
    0xb016=17610
    or
    11x161+0x160=176
    In our case it is: 080+020+008+002=0x0b16=17610

    Stah

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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by Stah on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:14 pm

    lockie wrote: In our case it is: 080+020+008+002=0x0b16=17610

    Ok, this is the math in it, but what do the flags do? How do they work?? That's what don't get.
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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by lockie on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:18 pm

    Stah wrote:
    lockie wrote: In our case it is: 080+020+008+002=0x0b16=17610

    Ok, this is the math in it, but what do the flags do? How do they work?? That's what don't get.
    It does that parameter, ie default3d has the next features:
    //DSBCAPS_CTRLVOLUME 0x080
    //DSBCAPS_CTRLFREQUENCY 0x020
    //DSBCAPS_LOCSOFTWARE 0x008
    //DSBCAPS_STATIC 0x002


    Stah

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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by Stah on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:25 pm

    lockie wrote: It does that parameter, ie default3d has the next features:
    //DSBCAPS_CTRLVOLUME 0x080
    //DSBCAPS_CTRLFREQUENCY 0x020
    //DSBCAPS_LOCSOFTWARE 0x008
    //DSBCAPS_STATIC 0x002

    It's cool (u know, I saw it in a file:)), but still - how they work? Ok, something to do with volume, something to do with frequency, but... it can be everything...

    Ok, I the first two probably set certain layer to be controllable in a certain aspect (volume, freq.) by game engine. Too little info (as for me) to even start tweaking.
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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by lockie on Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:14 pm

    Stah wrote:
    how they work? Ok, something to do with volume, something to do with frequency, but... it can be everything...
    Yeah, it's pure guessing, but at least we know a couple parameters.
    When u'll upload the file with a new sound adjustments?

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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by Stah on Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:37 pm

    Ah, I didn't know you want to test it Smile

    But one thing: take into account that this is soundscene giving you possible level of relism only when inside with hatches closed. In outside view or unbuttoned it may seem too dimmed. I had to make this choice, bacause there is no possibility (at least to my knowledge) of creating two different sound scenes - inner and outer.

    To be precise - let's say it's sort of compromise between inner and outer. Working for me! But remember - I'm inside for 90% of the time.

    http://www.4shared.com/file/BfFbwvN8ce/k42game.html

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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by Stah on Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:45 pm

    One more question I always wanted to ask:

    When you unpack the original file "programs.datapack" you get some strange file structure: the "programs" folder in which u have these 4 files (k42game.program as one of them), and one more folder called "make_ver", in which you have open/root/programs - and in this localization "k42game.program" once more. I found that the working version of the "k42game.program" file is the outer one. So why's that?

    And - how to pack them again? Cause u obviously need them in packed version to make a mod...
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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by lockie on Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:18 pm

    Stah wrote:
    When you unpack the original file "programs.datapack" you get some strange file structure: the "programs" folder in which u have these 4 files. I found that the working version of the "k42game.program" file is the outer one. So why's that?
    It wasn't supposed to be available for the users. Anyway it's a trademark of Graviteam - make tools for the users as more uncomfort  as possible.

    And - how to pack them again? Cause u obviously need them in packed version to make a mod...
    It's possible, but I don't want to be bothered.
    Just upload all essential files for the new inner sound mod. Name it somehow, like "re-sound my inner man" v1.0 Very Happy

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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by Stah on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:49 pm

    lockie wrote: Just upload all essential files for the new inner sound mod.

    Eee... I'm afraid I'm not following you... What files?? This is the only file, it makes all the difference. I can't do anything more Smile

    As to the mod title... should be somethin desciptive, imho. "Sound scene when inside the vehicle" will be most precise I think. Not very cool Smile , but descriptive.
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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by lockie on Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:29 pm

    Stah wrote:What files?? This is the only file, it makes all the difference. I can't do anything more Smile
    OK, then upload one file. May be name it as "Sound effects"?

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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by Stah on Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:52 pm

    I uploaded it already at and sent you a link to 4shared at 12.37. Ok, I copy it here:

    http://www.4shared.com/file/BfFbwvN8ce/k42game.html

    Do you want me to name what? A file? You lost me completely cyclops . Why should we change a file name, if it should work in a game? User just changes file and immediately has a new sound scene. Did you do that - I mean, did you tested my sound scene?
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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by lockie on Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:48 pm

    Stah wrote:I uploaded it already
    OK, I see Smile I'll try to make all changes in both files, thus it'll be a mod. Let's name it. I suggested "Changed Sound Effects"/"CSE".

    BTW
    I've found one interesting entry:
    //check videomemory size
    check_vidmem = true;
    So, I think if we change it on
    check_vidmem = false;
    Then possibly owners of the modern videocards will avoid a conflict with "insufficient memory".

    OK
    So, here is "release candidate" to check out the new version of the inside sound effects.


    README:
    This is mod to change default sound effects on the new, which mostly applied to sound scene inside the vehicle.
    It is recommended to create a new user profile to take all effects from the mod.

    INSTALLATION
    1. Steel Sound Mod 2.2 (SSM)
    2. STA 1.0
    3. SCE_1.0 www.4shared.com/rar/n-EZ6zJfba/v01_CSE_10.html
    4. GMP1.x (optional)
    5. GMP2.x (optional)
    6. GMP3.x (optional)
    7. current update
    8. Any Weather Mod (optional)

    v1.0
    1. initial release
    14.12.2015

    Stah,lockie

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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by Stah on Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:51 pm

    Ok, fine with me. Glad I could add something to SF Smile

    Name it as you want, of course, but... shouldn't its name strongly suggest, that it's for the inside soundscene? You see, for "outside view players" this can be a bit dimmed I'm afraid. If was to vote, I'll suggest such descriptive name, the one in my previous post ("Sound scene when inside the vehicle"). Let the user know what exactly can he expect from mod.

    Btw: you tested it, I assume?

    Edit: I think after a while that it absolutely shouldn't be named "Changed Sound Effects", simply because the sound effects (i. e. the sound files) weren't changed at all. What was changed is precisely the sound scene, i. e. the way in which game engine manages these samples (sound files).
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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by lockie on Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:32 pm

    Stah wrote:I think after a while that it absolutely shouldn't be named "Changed Sound Effects"
    OK Smile
    Name it whatever u think it should be bom
    Then change files, parameters, readme etc. and re-upload it once again. So, the final adjustments will be at er final decision.
    Now it is just a test variant.

    My impressions. Well, it didn't change anything except it became quiet when in unbuttoned position. All sounds, when shell hits the other tanks, sounds a very loud and u can hear them as they are exactly near er tank. But it is just a first try and I checked out only StuG IIIF. May be it's possible to change smth. else. And perhaps I need to make a new user profile to get new changes.

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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by Stah on Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:39 pm

    Ha!
    I thought you will be disappointed! Very Happy This is really nothin big, as I wrote in my fist post in this topic: it can't be nothin' great (I mean
    no big change), because the only thing that was changed were the max distances from which player hears certain sounds. And some proportions
    of volume level of certain sound groups were made too. That's all and you can't make any WOW-effect this way Very Happy . But I achieved what I was aiming at: the
    unrealistic ability to hear some sounds from afar, like a projectile scratching armour of a tank at a 1200 m distance, is no more here. Moreover, the
    difference is not very big, because it would sound idiotic when in unbottoned position... I tried "shortening" sounds more and from inside it was realistic as hell, but
    after unbuttonig it seemed as if your tanker had a cotton in his ears Very Happy
    I also turned up the volume of shots and explosions and lower register of engine, because imho they would be the best audible sounds from inside.

    That's all, and nothing more can be achieved by tweaking these numbers. For me it makes soundscene much more real, but it is - as I said in the beginning -
    a matter of personal taste. And you don't have to try it with different tanks - obviously its effect doesn't depend on a tank you play.

    As to making a mod from it - of course, but as this is an unpacked file I'm not sure if it'll work when JSGME just make a copy of it next to packed "programs" file, which
    is being used by game engine. That's why I asked about how to pack the files again, so the JSGME could swap the old version of "programs" for a new.
    So imho it should be packed again to take effect, that's all. And this I don't know how to do.

    Or even better - what's the hurry, let the others try it and express their opinion, hm? If it turns out that not only for you the changes are unimportand, why bother with mod at all?
    For example - Firnik also asked me for my sound settings, so he'll probably test them in due time too and say what he thinks.
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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by frinik on Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:28 am

    Yes I did and I couldn't hear almost anything anymore. Everything was muffled. The hit sounds were almost all gone. Personally I like hearing the hit sounds against metal even though I know it's not realistic to hear them from distance beyond 6 to 700 metres. I didn't hear the loud sounds Lockie referred to in his post though.
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    Re: Buggy sound in scene

    Post by Pointer on Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:54 am

    Stah wrote:As to making a mod from it - of course, but as this is an unpacked file I'm not sure if it'll work when JSGME just make a copy of it next to packed "programs" file, which is being used by game engine.

    The genertal rule is, that unpacked data structures (files) have higher priority then packed.
    But remember: if C-style unpacked file has "#include [<pathname>/]<filename>" statement, incuded file MUST be also unpacked.

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