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    Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

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    lockie
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    Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by lockie on Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:33 am

    During gunsight adjusting for Kwk40, it has been appeared that Pz.Gr.39 has 200 gramsof explosiveness!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_KwK_40#Ammunition
    KwK 40 used shell 75×495 mm. R
    Pzgr. Patr. 39 KwK 40 (Armour Piercing Capped Ballistic Cap (APCBC) High Explosive round)
    Muzzle velocity: 790 m/s
    Projectile: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)
    Projectile weight: 6.80 kg
    Explosive filler: 18 g of RDX/wax


    But as u can see, shell had only ~20 grams! Suppose it was made due to error or for the balance. This incorrect value exist during 8 years and there are no any complains  pirat  So, I decided to low it to 100 grams to be a bit closer to the real parameters. It's still fake value, but I'm sure it'll effect gameplay in the missions.

    PS
    Could someone check out what the value Gr.39 has in "Achtung Kharkiv/Star"?


    Last edited by lockie on Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    woofiedog
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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by woofiedog on Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:34 am

    lockie... Could someone check out what the value Gr.39 has in "Achtung Kharkiv/Star"?

    Is this what you are looking for?

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    lockie
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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by lockie on Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:00 am

    woofiedog wrote:
    Is this what you are looking for?
    No, I need parameters from the file. It should be flatted or under-flatted (I'm always confusing with this tools from "stone age"). In short, somehow u've to unpack and show parameters of the Gr.39 shell.
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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by woofiedog on Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:55 pm

    lockie... In short, somehow u've to unpack and show parameters of the Gr.39 shell.

    This is very much over my level and sorry I can't help.  Shocked

    http://stasf2008.ephpbb.com/t144-editing-sound-in-gtos-sf

    http://steamcommunity.com/app/275290/discussions/0/624076027637941602/?insideModal=1
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    frinik
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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by frinik on Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:01 pm

    @ Woofie: These are the penetration tables I suspect. Not what Lockie is looking for.There must be a common resolution folder for that game like for SF


    It's not only the Kwk40 but also the Pak 40 and Pak39, their Pzgr 39_75 also have 200 grams of explosive filler.

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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by Tanker on Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:27 pm

    Ask at the GT forums?
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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by woofiedog on Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:29 pm

    frinik... of the file folders of Achtung Panzer- Kharkov 1943 there are "flatdata/cfgpack" files.  But at the moment I can not open either type of those files.







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    lockie
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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by lockie on Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:28 pm

    I've already opened the file with parameters.
    http://stasf2008.ephpbb.com/t485-shell-s-parameters#4662
    There are no "0.02" neither "0.18". It does "Achtung" has the same error or "game balance".

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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by Lord Haw-Haw on Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:33 pm

    200g vs 20g & 18g of what kind of explosive? Maybe "they" were compensating for something in the game perameteres/engine? If they all use the same explosive in game maybe to make for differences in type/era/country? Or for dramatic effect, as gasoline fire balls and grinder sparks (industrial environments) in movies.
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    lockie
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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by lockie on Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:38 pm

    Lord Haw-Haw wrote:what kind of explosive?
    RDX/wax

    Maybe "they" were compensating for something in the game perameteres/engine?
    I don't think so. Parameters of the shells should be clear.

    If they all use the same explosive in game maybe to make for differences in type/era/country? Or for dramatic effect, as gasoline fire balls and grinder sparks (industrial environments) in movies.
    It's possible. Increase shell power for the "game balance".

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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by Technopiper on Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:19 am

    200 gram in-game does not necessarily correspond to 200 gram in real life. Explosive in the game could be real weak, and 200 might be the realistic setting. What are the amount of explosive in other types of shells? I am really just guessing here, perhaps the exargerated figure is trying to simulate damage caused by fragments of an AP shell?
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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by frinik on Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:44 am

    My suspicion is that it's a simple human error by the developers. Either forgetting a zero and entering 0.2 instead of 0.02 or misreading the historical material they used to create the game. If I remember correctly there was also an error with the PzGr 39_88 of the Tiger I. Originally the explosive filler read 0.6 instead of the 0.06 grams(0.059 grs in reality). Lockie or Mistwalker( can't remember who it was) found the mistake 2 to 3 years ago and had it corrected .

    Here's a feeling of deja vu:

    http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=11509.0
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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by frinik on Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:36 pm

    I did a test of the PzGr 39_75 with 200 grams of explosive filler and another one with only 20 grams. It did not notice any difference in efficiency. The penetration effect was unchanged. My suspicion is that quantity of explosive would only make a difference in the propensity of a penetrating shot to create spalling inside the tank or set the fuel or ammo afire or explode. I think we can safely switch the current value to the historical one without any fear. I used both the Panzer IV Ausf F2 and Ausf H for the test against various stationary targets.
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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by Tanker on Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:38 pm

    Donken wrote: And because all spalling parameters is set so high it negates the effect. One penetrating hit on any tank kills almost all crew anyway.


    Is this true only for tanks? I've noticed that I can make Swiss cheese of apcs with no apparent effect.
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    Re: Panzergranate 39 (Pzgr. 39)

    Post by frinik on Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:09 am

    So what do suggest the armour_frail values should be to increase spalling?
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