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    German TZF gunsights - Review

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    Txema
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    German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:14 pm

    I am going to post in this thread the information that I have compiled about the german TZF gunsights.
    I hope it will be useful Very Happy

    If you find something wrong, please let me know !

    Txema


    P. S. General information about german gunsights:

    "Encyclopedia of german tanks of world war two"
    by Peter Chamberlain, Hilary Doyle, Thomas L. Jentz

    Additional information (there are some discrepancies when compared to the previous reference book).
    (When discrepancies were found, the information of the book was used)
    http://www.lonesentry.com/blog/german-tank-and-armored-car-sights.html


    Last edited by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:20 pm; edited 3 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:21 pm

    TZF 3a
    2cm KwK38(L/55)
    Sd Kfz 222, 234/1, 250/9, 251/23

    I have found a photograph !



    ********************************************

    TZF 4/38
    2cm KwK30(L/55)
    Pz.II C, F



    From:
    "Panzer II vs 7TP: Poland 1939"
    By David R. Higgins


    Last edited by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:22 pm; edited 5 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:32 pm

    TZF 5a
    3.7cm KwK36(L/45)
    Pz.III A-G



    From:
    "Panzer III vs Somua S 35: Belgium 1940"
    by Steven J. Zaloga

    ********************************************

    TZF 5a ver1
    5cm KwK38(L/42)
    Pz.III E-G





    From:
    "Panzerkampfwagen III Medium Tank 1936-44"
    by Bryan Perrett


    Last edited by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:26 pm; edited 7 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:35 pm



    Last edited by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:49 pm; edited 3 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:38 pm

    TZF 5b vergr
    7.5cm KwK37(L/24)
    Pz.III N, Pz.IV B-F1



    From:
    http://www.panzerworld.com/german-armor-optics


    Last edited by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:50 pm; edited 3 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:41 pm

    TZF 5d
    5cm KwK38(L/42)
    Pz.III F-J



    From:
    http://pedg.yuku.com/topic/2112/Strichplatten-TZF-5-E


    Last edited by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:51 pm; edited 3 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:43 pm

    TZF 5f
    7.5cm KwK40(L/43)
    Pz.IV F2-G



    From:
    http://pedg.yuku.com/topic/2112/Strichplatten-TZF-5-E

    It has been implemented like that in:

    - Panzer Elite



    - Invasion 1944 mod



    - Red Orchestra 2



    Last edited by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:12 pm; edited 5 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:48 pm



    Last edited by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:19 pm; edited 2 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:50 pm

    TZF 9b and TZF 9c
    8.8cm KwK36(L/56)
    Pz.VI E (Tiger)





    IMPORTANT: TZF 9c (used in Tiger I Late model) had dual magnification (2.5X and 5X)

    From:
    "Germany's tiger tanks. Tiger I & II: combat tactics"
    By Thomas L. Jentz


    Last edited by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:53 pm; edited 4 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:54 pm

    TZF 9d
    8.8cm KwK43(L/71)
    Pz.VI B (Tiger II)





    IMPORTANT: It had dual magnification (2.5X and 5X)

    From:
    "King Tiger vs IS-2: Operation Solstice 1945"
    David R. Higgins


    Last edited by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:18 pm; edited 5 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:57 pm

    TZF 12 and TZF 12a
    7.5cm KwK42(L/70)
    Panther D, A
    Panther A, G





    IMPORTANT: TZF 12a (used in Panther A and Panther G) had dual magnification (2.5X and 5X)

    From:
    "Germany's Panther tank: the quest for combat supremacy"
    by Thomas L. Jentz and Hilary L. Doyle


    Last edited by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:17 pm; edited 6 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:10 pm

    TZF 5e
    5cm KwK39 (L/60)
    Pz.III J-M

    Pz.III J tank implemted in Red Orchestra 2


    Last edited by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:49 pm; edited 4 times in total
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    lockie
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by lockie on Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:29 pm

    That's a very useful information. Thank u, Txema!

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:39 pm

    Very interesting post describing the operation of the TZF german gunsights by an expert. He speaks about the operation of a real gunsight owned by a collector !

    http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4788063&postcount=7

    mlespaul wrote:Having examined the operating behaviour of a TZF 9d with the help of a very good friend, here is how the larger bore TZFs behaved when you rotated the handwheel.
    I also know that this behavior is the same in the "lesser" panzer TZFs.

    When you turn the range selection to the left, the reticle also rotates to the left and vice versa. Corresponding to that, the zielstachel and the lead angle-marks move downwards and upwards, as you already know. The range selection can be turned continously 360° in both directions. No stop anywhere.

    If you start the rotation at the zero-mark, say, at the start of the rotation at the of the SprGr.-scale. The Zielstachel is in it's highest possible position. Starting to turn the range selection to the left lets the reticle rotate to the left and the Zielstachel move downwards.
    So, as you are moving further on in the same rotation the zielstachel stays in its lowest position for a while and about halfway between the two scales it begins to fast move upwards again until it again reaches its highest position at the zero-mark of the PzGr.-scale.

    So, if you keep wandering further along the PzGr.-scale, that allows the zielstachel to move downwards again, but not as far as at the Spr.Gr.-scale, which is it's deepest position there. Continuing towards the Spr.Gr.-scale lets the zielstachel move upwards again to the position where you started.

    In the TZF 5's though, there is an actual stop point, therefore, the action described above would occur as you went from one extreme point to the other. The behavior of the zielstachels against the rotation of the scale is always the same.

    (the Zielstachel corresponds with the large central triangle of the gunsight)

    It seems identical to what it can be seen in the youtube video !

    Pz.IV/G (and also Pz.IVF2) TZF 5f gunsight


    Since it is not possible to implement (in Steel Fury) the movement of the 7 central triangles back to the center of the gunsight while we go from the PzGr39 scale, to the SprGr34 scale, we could do it in "two gunsights". The first gunsight will have the PzGr39 scale in the upper part, and the SprGr34 scale in the lower part, and it should be used to range the PzGr39 (and PzGr40) shells. The second gunsight will have the SprGr34 scale in the upper part, and the PzGr39 scale in the lower part, and it should be used to range the SprGr34 (and MG34) shells. For the player both gunsights would be the same gunsight, of course, but by pressing "PageUP" and "PageDown" he will switch between using the ranging scale for PzGr39 and the ranging scale for the SprGr34.

    One important advantage of this implementation is that the rate of vertical movement for the 7 central triangles can be calibrated independently for the PzGr39 scale and for the SprGr34 scale, to take into account the different muzzle velocity of both shells, if needed. Just as they did in the real german gunsights!


    Last edited by Txema on Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:11 am; edited 4 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:46 pm

    And now gunsights for the assault guns:

    SflZF1a
    7.5cm StuK40, 7.5cm StuK42, 10.5cm StuH42, 8.8cm StuK43/1
    StuG F-G, StuG IV, Jagdpanzer IV, StuH42, Ferdinand



    IMPORTANT: It had 5X magnification

    From:
    "M10 tank destroyer vs StuG III assault gun: Germany 1944"
    By Steven J. Zaloga

    And a photograph !



    Photographs in the forum:
    http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=602866


    Last edited by Txema on Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:14 am; edited 5 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:51 pm

    WZF1-4
    8.8cm StuK43
    Jagdpanther (late)



    IMPORTANT: It had 10X magnification

    From:
    "Jagdpanther vs SU-100: Eastern Front 1945"
    By David R. Higgins


    Last edited by Txema on Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    lockie
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by lockie on Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:51 pm

    Txema wrote:
    He-he, this gunsight reticle was made by me approximately 3 years ago Very Happy
    It's funny to see it as a real one. It was made out by me on the base of gunsight from Red Orchestra (murkz upload a picture with it on Graviteam forum at my asking).

    It's a half-fake, coz Jagdpanther had in real a "drum" to adjust the distance, but SF doesn't has such feature. That's why I decided to place scale with HE/AP shells on the reticle. The first gunsight with such technology I made for STUG IIIG, mission "Fire ground", GMP1.x

    http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=10252.20

    That's a REAL bullshit Very Happy Razz What a Face
    A view through a Jagdpanther's WZF 1/4 gunsight, targeting a Soviet SU-100. The markings indicate the type of ammunition used, and their respective range markings (no machine-gun scale is used). The Jagdpanther used a binocular sight (right: only reticle lines; left: only ammunition range scales), with the two images appearing superimposed when using both eyes. Targeting and firing were to be done only when stationary.


    RUSSIAN OCCUPANTS GET LOST FROM UKRAINE!


    Last edited by lockie on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:03 am; edited 4 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by Txema on Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:42 am

    Hi Lockie !

    When I saw the WZF1-4 gunsight I was very surprised because it was so close to the "fake" gunsights that you had done for the assault guns in Steel Fury... If your "fake" gunsights were based on a gunsight from Red Orchestra, probably the gunsight from Red Orchestra was based on the real WZF1-4 ! Very Happy
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    will73
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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

    Post by will73 on Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:18 pm

    Не сперечайтесь
    В мене оригінал цієї сітки в файлах  flzjp_a.emf, flzjp_a.vsd, flzjp_b.emf, flzjp_b.vsd.
    Розпочав приціл розробляти Олекса (Lockie), я добавив підкаліберний Pzgr40/43 і поправив швидкість уламкового Spgr43

    окремі файли сіток прицілу в jpeg


    ось накладені файли шкал і трикутників в jpeg

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    Re: German TZF gunsights - Review

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