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    Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

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    lockie
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    Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by lockie on Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:59 am

    I've idea to re-make mission "Panther's last Roar" on the profit of USSR side. This time user will have JS-3 and have to stop German Kampfgruppe to surrender to allies.
    Of course, I need help of Maestro Frinik to write the briefing. Though, I've suspicious that he will not approve the mission name (even after 2 bottles of "White horse") Shocked Cool Laughing
    Then we may discuss it and change the name on smth. neutral as:
    -"Last chance of uncle Joe", "The last Stalin's argument", "Blaze of the Soviet armor" etc.
    I think it'll be interesting to see smth. like: 3xJS-3 vs 2xPantherF+5xKTII
    The victory trigger is: kill them all (3x USSR superiority all over polygon)
    The defeat is: at least one German tank managed to broke through the USSR defence and got the area in the village.



    Here's a short version of the breifing:

    It was May 9th 1945.
    According to reconnaissance from the Headquarter of the 3rd Ukrainian Front the remnants of the 10th SS Panzer Division "Frundsberg"(2xPz.V F) and 501 SS Schwere Panzer Abteilung(equipped with 5xPz.VI B) under command Obersturmbannführer Franz Roestel tried to breakthrough to the Brüx (Most), Czechoslovakia and then proceed to Klingenthal to surrender allies forces.
    Commander of the 4th Guards Tank Army General-Leutnant Zahvataev N.D. received a personal order from the Supreme Chief to intercept German retreated forces and prevent them to surrender to the allies hands.
    Unfortunately, the main forces was on the marsh and there was only recce squad consist of the three new heavy tanks JS-3, which passes a testing exercises under command Captain Taras Chuprinka. There was also parts from the 15th Anti-tank Regiment under command First lieutenant Yurko Kruk.
    General Zahvataev sent to Captain Chuprinka a radio-message: Stay to the death and don't give any chance to Nazi to surrender to capitalist forces and come to the capitalist world!
    - Captain, you are a represent of the Soviet power, - said General. And we brings a liberty to Europe from Nazi mode. The grateful European descendants will thanks forever to USSR what we have done for them! Remember that Captain! If u stop German units then you will be promoted to the Major rank. People from all the Europe and USSR and especially Comrade Stalin look at you! Don't give them a chance to escape from our revenge!
    General-Leutnant Zahvataev N.D.



    PS
    Mission included in GMP3.32.
    That's interesting also:
    http://www.missing-lynx.com/library/german/schulze/schulze.htm


    Last edited by lockie on Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:28 am; edited 6 times in total
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by frinik on Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:18 pm

    I love the title Very Happy

    May I suggest:

    Czechoslovakia, May 9th 1945.

    The war has officially ended in Europe except for some die-hard Waffen SS units who want to continue the fight or simply won't surrender to the Soviets, fearful of the terrible fate that would await them.

    According to reconnaissance reports from the Headquarters of the 3rd Ukrainian Front, the remnants of the 10th SS Panzer Division "Frundsberg", consisting of 2 Panther Ausf. F and of the SS Schwere panzerabteilung  501 - equipped with 5 Pz.VI Ausf. B - under the command of Obersturmbannführer Franz Roestel, will try to break through the Soviet lines near Brüx (Most) and then fight their way to Klingenthal in order to surrender to the American forces there.

    The Commander of the 4th Guards Tank Army, General-Lieutenant Zahvataev N.D. was personally ordered by the Supreme Chief to intercept the retreating German forces and prevent them from surrendering to the allies hands.

    Unfortunately, the main forces were still on their way and only a recce squad consisting of three new JS-3 heavy tanks JS-3, undergoing testing under the command of Captain Taras Chuprinka, was immediately available to intercept the Germans. Parts of the 15th Anti-tank Regiment under command First lieutenant Yurko Kruk were also attached to Chuprinka's forces.

    General Zahvataev sent to Captain Chuprinka a radio-message: defend your positions to the death if necessary but stop the Fascists from surrendering to the Capitalist forces and come to the capitalist world!

    - Captain, you are invested with the power of the Soviet people and nation! - said the General. We brought freedom to the oppressed masses of Europe from Fascist domination. Future generations of Europeans will always gratefully remember the USSR and its Red Army and what we have done for them! Remember that Captain! If you stop the Germans then you can expect to be promoted to the rank of major. All the people of Europe and the USSR and especially Comrade Stalin are looking at you! Don't fail us and allow these Fascists from escaping their just fate!

    Signed

    General-Lieutenant Zahvataev N.D.


    Last edited by frinik on Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:50 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by lockie on Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:41 pm

    frinik wrote:I love the title Very Happy
    drunken  cheers  drunken

    May I suggest:
    Czechoslovakia, May 9th 1945.
    The war has officially ended in Europe...
    This is excellent text! I just want to replace Fascists on Nazist, fascists were Italian. I hope in the future to implement Fascist somewhere in Africa. We already have one Italian tank FIAT L6/40. This tank is still out of the personal mission.
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by frinik on Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:45 pm

    Yes Fascists were Italians but in every translation from Soviet propaganda during WW2 they refer to the Germans as either Hitlerites or Fascists... They rarely if ever use the term Nazi( not insulting enough I suppose?).

    http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=64501

    I made a few corrections to my text.
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by lockie on Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:23 am

    I made a few corrections to my text.
    OK, I see. What about a history note before mission will be d/l? I think there should be smth. common, i.e:
    The war has officially ended in Europe except for some die-hard Waffen SS units who want to continue the fight or simply won't surrender to the Soviets, fearful of the terrible fate that would await them.
    Could u increase this sentence? Like:
    3d Ukrainian Front finished the war in Austria, but there were some fireplaces with enemy remnants. It wasn't a strong units, but has dangerous power. At those time Soviet Tank Forces were about to receive a new tank JS-3. Soviet Supreme decided to make a test with three tanks against such remnants parts, but delivery to the front took too much time and finally decision was taken as provide a simple exercises: run, shooting.
    But unexpectedly the history brought the news to the Soviet armor...
    Appearance of the JS-3 was exactly in time.

    Here's briefing and tasks from the mission:
    Initial situation:
    Czechoslovakia, May 9th 1945. The war has officially ended in Europe except for some die-hard Waffen SS units who want to continue the fight or simply won't surrender to the Soviets, fearful of the terrible fate that would await them. According to reconnaissance reports from the Headquarters of the 3rd Ukrainian Front, the remnants of the 10th SS Panzer Division "Frundsberg", consisting of Panthers and of the 501 SS Schwere Panzer-Abteilung equipped with "King Tigers" tanks - under the command of Obersturmbannfuhrer Franz Roestel, will try to break through the Soviet lines near Brux (Most) and then fight their way to Klingenthal in order to surrender to the American forces there.
    The Commander of the 4th Guards Tank Army, General-Lieutenant Zahvataev N.D. was personally ordered by the Supreme Chief to intercept the retreating German forces and prevent them from surrendering to the allies hands.
    Unfortunately, the main forces were still on their way and only a recce squad consisting of three new heavy tanks JS-3, undergoing testing under the command of Captain Taras Chuprinka, was immediately available to intercept the Germans. Parts of the 15th Anti-tank Regiment under command First lieutenant Yurko Kruk were also attached to Chuprinka's forces.
    General Zahvataev sent to Captain Chuprinka a radio-message: defend your positions to the death if necessary but stop the Nazists from
    surrendering to the Capitalist forces and come to the capitalist world!

    Combat order:
    There are our defence positions, which hold on with AT guns form 15th Regiment under command First lieutenant Yurko Kruk. Move to this positions, attack enemy and destroy him! No one tank can't not be allowed to come in the Brux village! Here's radio-message from Commander of the 4th Guards Tank Army General-Lieutenant Zahvataev N.D.
    - Captain, you are invested with the power of the Soviet people and nation! - said the General. We brought freedom to the oppressed masses of Europe from Nazist domination. Future generations of Europeans will always gratefully remember the USSR and its Red Army and what we have done for them! Remember that Captain! If you stop the Germans then you can expect to be promoted to the rank of major. All the people of Europe and the USSR and especially Comrade Stalin are looking at you! Don't fail us and allow these Nazists from escaping their just destiny!

    Your Task:
    You are Captain Taras Chuprinka. Under your command there are three tanks JS-3.
    You have to:
    1. Intercept and destroy the enemy forces, which moves to Brux village.
    There are no artillery and avia support.

    Reconnaissance report
    According to the received data the enemy has:
    - two Panthers, five "King Tigers", several light armor vehicles with grenadiers.


    PS
    frinik wrote:Yes Fascists were Italians but in every translation from Soviet propaganda during WW2 they refer to the Germans as either Hitlerites or Fascists...
    Yeah, I know there are many common between communism, nazism, fascism, but there are some deferences also. I'm sure it's time don't follow Soviet propaganda and name mentioned parties as they are  farao

    That's interesting article, but I'm Ukrainian.
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by frinik on Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:58 pm

    All right I buffed the initial sentence:

    The 3d Ukrainian Front thought it would finish the war in Austria, but there were still some scattered pockets of resistance put up by the remnants of the once mighty Wehrmacht. They were no longer strong units , in fact just the shadows of what they had been not that long ago, but they could still inflict damage. It was in those fateful days that the Red Army was about to receive the most dreaded steel juggernaut of the Soviet armoured forces; the JS-3. The Soviet Supreme had decided to test  three of these steel colossi to deal with any hint of resistance from the Panzerwaffe. However there were delays in delivering the testing units to the front and in the end it was decided to limit the testing to a simple exercise: run and shoot.

    But the winds of war brought an unexpected opportunity to the Soviet armour with Frundsberg and SPA 501 refusing to give up.
    The JS-3 appeared exactly at the right time.


    Lockie your nationality has nothing to do with the terminology used by the Red Army which was an army whose common language was Russian. Anyway do as you want because in the end that's exactly what you will do anyway! Laughing
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by 33lima on Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:05 pm

    I would suggest not calling the JS-3 a 'recce squad'. Reconnaisance units didn't use heavy tanks. And the platoon's mission is not reconnaisance.

    Frinik is right. In any translation I have seen of Soviet writings for 'the Great Patriotic War', they used the term 'Fascists' for the Germans, not' Nazis'. As far as the Soviets were concerned, they were fighting the same enemy they fought in Spain - fascism, whatver the local 'brand name' was. Using the language that was used at the time, makes things more immersive. That is why in a mission report flying for the British in WW1, I often call the Germ,ans 'Huns' - that is what the RFC called them, and it was not an insult. flying for the Germans I may call the enemy an Englishman, because that is what German accounts often do, even though it is not accurate. Reporting on the VB mission, I use 'Tommies' for the British.

    Also why I call the town hall (VB is far too small to be a city) in the VB mission 'Hotel de Ville'
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by frinik on Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:12 am

    Also Nazist does not exist in the English language.... Wink
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by lockie on Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:13 am

    33lima wrote:I would suggest not calling the JS-3 a 'recce squad'. Reconnaisance units didn't use heavy tanks. And the platoon's mission is not reconnaisance.
    OK. Let it be "special squad".

    Frinik is right.
    Of course, he is right. I was born int USSR and fooled with Soviet propaganda. That's why I don't want follow to it.

    frinik wrote:Also Nazist does not exist in the English language.... Wink
    Oh, it's easy deal Smile
    One, two, three! Abracadabra!
    Now the word "Nazist" does exist in the English language Cool
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by lockie on Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:45 pm

    Mission is started to work! This is result of my two tries to finish it and of course, I failed in both times Evil or Very Mad
    No wonder. 3x JS-3 with a very very slow reloading time against 7x Monsters! Plus there are some Pumas and grenadiers.
    Here's my start. JS-3 has at the default in the this mission:
    18 AP
    10 HE
    I've sent my infantry with wingmen move forward, meanwhile staying  beyond their back, I'm intended to shoot all the enemy tanks.


    Combat touch. The distance is more than 1km. There is a good chance to practice with shooting.


    AI took a very good hull down position Cool


    And this is a finish. My tank and both wingmen destroyed Sad
    Inspite of the very thick JS-3 armor he is vulnerable to the German shells.


    My trophy was - two Panther F, which was not bad for the first time.


    This "Fat Boy" caused me the most big troubles  Twisted Evil


    Conclusion:
    To win this mission the reloading time of the JS-3 should be 1 shot per 1 sec with 100 AP shells armament  Rolling Eyes  Cool  scratch
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by lockie on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:23 pm

    Mission is ready and now under testing. So, who wants to test it then PM me "test".
    Місія готова, хто хоче потестувати, то надсилайте мені меседж на приват "test".

    I've tried once again, this time balance was "4" and enemy experience is "2". Unfortunately, no go Sad
    This "Muskrat" destroyed all my tanks  Evil or Very Mad He took ELEVEN hits and only track was broken Rolling Eyes



    EDIT
    Finally, I've managed complete the mission successfully!
    As it being said - the best combat battle for the tank - AMBUSH! After several tries, I've understood that duel with German "monsters" is useless even, if u've such weapon as JS-3 with his thick armor and dead gun 122mm. There is only Ambush and always AMBUSH, if u want to win at least in this mission farao (Of course, such ambush works only against stupid AI).
    Here's my ambush. I've found it near the Brux. There were several trees and bushes. I wasn't care abt. wingmen, but u've to be care with er infantry, coz soon u'll need to protect er tank against Panzerschreck!



    I've decided don't defend my forward positions, coz AI had more forces than me. So, I let him to capture the trenches and felt himself as a winner. Meanwhile, AI occupied the new positions and gave command to the column with ammo and fuel - u may go! It was his a BIG mistake!
    - Come here "Fatty boy". I don't hurt u. GOTCHA!


    On this screen u may see a "King Tiger". I've covered with a damaged trucks, then hit this "Fat Boy"!
    At this time my wingmen were already dead, but infantry still alive! Advice, if u hit the enemy tank and don't see confirmation message, then send infantry to finish survived crew members. The game calculates only crewmen(dead/alive) and doesn't care what the damage was caused to the tank.


    It is a VICTORY! The town was protected and all German were killed or captured by the Soviet liberators! No any Krauts couldn't escape to the allies side!


    There are some trophies. I've got four tanks. My first wingmen did nothing, but the second hit one tank and two AFV "Puma"!


    PPS
    JS-3 was sent to "repair plant". His hull has many "open edges". Thus we have another confirmation of the main rule - no any tank could no be ready without a personal mission.

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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by dukling on Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:08 am

    Місія пройдена на балансі 9: Smile




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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by 33lima on Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:49 pm



    I'm getting graphics corruption on the IS-3 textures, swapping between three mixed-up textures. Have the recommended install. Still happens if I disable spring weather.
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by frinik on Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:25 am

    I had the same problem but only the tracks of the JS-3 with the late summer installation. I just copied the tracks texture from a good installation and pasted them over the faulty ones and my problem was solved. I once did the same with corrupted armour textures for the Jagdtiger in an NTA install I just copied the bump and dds textures files form a healthy back-up installation and that solved my problem. You may want to try it out.
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by 33lima on Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:59 am

    Thanks Frinik. I got a 10b Sept update from Lokcie just now, apparently it also fixes some 'open edges' issues.

    I really like the structure of this mission - a simple concept, with a sensible and realistic set-up. The enemy is coming, desperate to escape us. We have deployed a screen of AT guns just to the north, across his axis of advance. Take your combat trial platoon of IS-3s up there and hit the Fascists hard!
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by 33lima on Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:48 pm

    OK here are some impressions based on having played the mission through twice.

    The first time, my IS-3s and infantry had covered less than a third of the way to our foremost defensive positions, when the shooting started up ahead. Before I could see anything, let alone shoot, I got a message that the enemy had penetrated our defensive positions.



    I reached the top of the reverse slope, from which I could begin to see the battle, but from a decent hull-down position. I found myself in a shooting match with King Tigers at fairly close range.



    Despite being hull down, I was soon hit by return fire and 'seriously wounded'. It was very frustrating, spending a few minutes getting to the battle, only to be knocked out for my trouble.

    My feeling was, 'This is too rushed. The player needs to be given a lot longer, before the Germans arrive. And there are too many King Tigers, for the recommended balance'.

    Second time, was a lot more fun, but ONLY because I knew the Germans would arrive soon and there was no point trying to rush, to join up with our defensive positions. Still, it resulted in a frustrating ending.

    I looked at the map and decided to move to firing positions a much shorter distance away, making no attempt to help our defensive positions.

    My chosen battle position was half-left, a bottleneck in between a lake to our left and a hill to our right, with an AA gun on the top.



    This worked much better. The lake protected our left flank and the hill covered our right flank. I faced north and from there, we shot any enemies who came into our field of fire. I got two King Tigers but it was difficult, crossing targets and a very low rate of fire. The IS-3 may be a great assault tank but it is not so good dealing with moving enemy tanks. Also the small # of 122mm rounds carried means there is too little AP for a sustained fight against enemy tanks, let alone enemy heavy tanks.







    Of course, some enemies managed to work forward on our right flank, moving on the far side of the hill. Friendly forces got some of them but others, including a King Tiger I could not shoot before he got out of sight behind the hill, made it.



    To counter this I changed position, moving back and around to our right. From a position north-west of the town, we shot up some trucks and a lot of infantry, including some Panzerschreks. Becase we did not have to move too far, our infantry were able to keep up fairly well and helped us destroy the enemy there.



    We had got a message that the enemy had reached the town so I ordered a move there. Before we reached the town my TC spotted a German sitting on a King Tiger which was half-submerged in the river, south of the town! There were also one or two enemy soldiers who ran over the high ground south of the river, chased by my tracers. These few men would have reached the US lines.

    The town was clear of the enemy. A King Tiger had made it into town but was abandoned, possibly killed by a 76mm gun nearby.

    Nothing else happened. Everything just came to a halt. No more orders (just the first one, 'attack'). No more enemies. After a while I gave up and quit the mission - which was judged a failure. That was not right. Our guns had suffered heavy losses - most of them were too far away for me to help, as I learned on the first mission. But I had lost just one IS-3 and a few infantry, in return for killing several King Tigers and other enemies. More importantly, almost the whole German force was destroyed. The only surviving vehicles were two Pumas. Both of them looked like they were bogged down, in our defensive positions. They did not escape.  This should have been counted a victory, even if one or two of the Fascists escaped Soviet justice!

    So, my suggestions are:

    1. Delay the Germans long enough to give the player enough time to reach the foremost Soviet defensive positions, or at least get close to them. Perhaps a random delay so that some times they will be faster, some times, slower. The shooting starts far too long before the player can do anything about it.

    2. Stop the player being able to see GERMAN radio messages! I saw more than one, displayed as text.

    3. Reduce the # of King Tigers to no more than one or two; replace with Panzer IVs.

    4. Change the victory conditions so that the Red Army wins, if either (i) 80% of the German force has been destroyed or (ii) after say 25 minutes, at least 20% of the German force has NOT got to the bottom edge of the map, past the town and the river south of it. IOW the Soviets win if they destroy nearly all the enemy or stop nearly all of them from escaping, during the duration of the battle.


    Last edited by 33lima on Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:16 pm; edited 11 times in total
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by 33lima on Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:51 pm

    Some other points:

    1. the visuals are fantastic.

    2. The IS-3 feels as it looks,. powerful and impressive, it's great this mission is avaialble for it.

    3. The map/polygon is exceptionally good.

    4. The sounds are very good. Some MGs still sound like typewritters but the MG42 is excellent and at least one MG not only soulds like a real MG, I am sure I can hear the clink of empty brass after each burst - this is great.

    5. The concept of the mission is excellent and very engaging. The combination of infantry and heavy tanks works very well, provided the player does not drive too far, too fast. This could be one of the very best SF missions.
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by lockie on Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:13 pm

    Thank for the detailed testing!  bom
    33lima wrote:
    1. Delay the Germans long enough to give the player enough time to reach the foremost Soviet defensive positions
    OK, I'll add 60 sec for user to approach the defence position, but he won't be able to be there. I made it deliberately, to force him to find another variant how to stop the Nazist.

    Perhaps a random delay so that some times they will be faster, some times, slower. The shooting starts far too long before the player can do anything about it.
    Randomness has been achieved by the user' position. There are four positions where user being appeared.

    2. Stop the player being able to see GERMAN radio messages! I saw more than one, displayed as text.
    He-he, this is a hint  Cool  Perhaps, I should have been noted abt. these messages in the "Your task" tab. Ie,
    Chuprinka, listen carefully the German radio messages. There must be SEVEN messages that enemy tank destroyed! It is an indicator that  you have been executed the order.

    3. Reduce the # of King Tigers to no more than one or two, replace with Panzer IVs.
    That's definitely for the user' home-work, coz Soviet recce reported exactly abt. FIVE King Tigers.

    4. Change the victory conditions so that the Red Army wins, if either (i) 80% of the German force has been destroyed
    I've made smth. similar. Victory trigger will switch ON, when the Soviet superiority over polygon will be 1.8 times more than Germany forces. It does that u've to go to the defence positions, find the damaged enemy tanks and kill them.
    I'll add radio-message from HQ:
    Gorobyna! What the hell do you waiting for? Go to the defence positions, find the enemy tanks and terminate them all! You have to destroy SEVEN tanks!

    or (ii) after say 25 minutes, at least 20% of the German force has NOT got to the bottom edge of the map
    That's interesting suggestion. I'll add another condition, if user still alive after 30 minutes and the town was not captured by the enemy and he didn't escape - then user will get the victory.
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by 33lima on Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:59 pm

    I really don't like the idea of being told that you have to destroy a fixed # of enemy tanks, to win. Combat Flight Sim 2's stock campaign had victory conditions like this, and it was silly - totally unrealistic, to tell the player what that number is!

    Also, despite a certain Soviet film about a Tiger crew challenging a T-34 crew over the radio, it's not at all realistic to be able to hear (or understand!) enemy radio messages, in your tank. That is a specialised job, not for a tank crew. They would have enough trouble, keeping their own radio working and monitoring radio and intercom traffic. And knowing they were being listened in to, armies did not speak plainly, but in ways which disguised the real meaning.

    Anyway we have both discovered that the best tactic in the mission in its current form, is not to try to link up and combine fires with the foremost defensive positions, but to set up an ambush. If the Germans are delayed a bit, the player might have additional options, which would be a good thing - moving up to a position from which he could interlock arcs of fire with the foremost anti-tank guns could become an alternative winning strategy.
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    lockie
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by lockie on Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:20 pm

    33lima wrote:I really don't like the idea of being told that you have to destroy a fixed # of enemy tanks, to win.
    User should destroy 7 tanks, but 6 tanks are quite enough. OK, I'll decrease the triggers demands.

    Also, despite a certain Soviet film about a Tiger crew challenging a T-34 crew over the radio, it's not at all realistic to be able to hear (or understand!) enemy radio messages, in your tank.
    This is a game Smile And "radio-messages" are just for fun and indication that tank destroyed Smile
    U may comment them with symbol "//".
    1. open:
    data\k42\loc_rus\levels\levels\SCRIPTS\cm_pack_mission30\sta_commie_chance_loc_data.text
    2. comment the next entries with symbol "//"

    Code:
    //2x panther F destroyed
    //txt_d_pz51() {\n= Radiomessage =\nIch Oak Ein. Unser Panzer wurde getroffen!;}
    //txt_d_pz52() {\n= Radiomessage =\nIch Oak Zwei. Ist unser Panzer zerstort? Wir sind auf Feuer!;}
    //2x KT destroyed
    // txt_d_pz61() {\n= Radiomessage =\nIch Wolf Ein. Unser Tiger wurde zerstoert. Verlassen Sie das Fahrzeug!;}
    // txt_d_pz62() {\n= Radiomessage =\nIch Wolf Zwei. Wir verbrennen! Rettet euch vor sie kommen!;}
    //3x KT destroyed
    // txt_d_pz630() {\n= Radiomessage =\nIch Luchs Ein. Ivan hat mich getroffen! Wir sind auf Feuer!;}
    // txt_d_pz631() {\n= Radiomessage =\nIch Luchs Zwei. Scheise! Unser Panzer is ganz zerstort!;}
    // txt_d_pz632() {\n= Radiomessage =\nIch Luchs Drei. Dies ist das Ende unserer Tiger! Heil Hitler!;}

    If the Germans are delayed a bit, the player might have additional options, which would be a good thing - moving up to a position from which he could interlock arcs of fire with the foremost anti-tank guns could become an alternative winning strategy.
    Now user has 30 sec more to get a good ambush (or try to reach the defence position).

    PS
    Would be nice to get trigger which is responsible for the track damaged, but without source code it's impossible to do.

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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by Technopiper on Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:12 am

    I like the radio messages and believe they are realistic. Signal security isn't so much of a deal when it is low-level battlefield communications, because their importance expires the moment they are sent. The Japanese fleet would do everything to conceal the fact that it was leaving home waters, but why would a plane that was dropping torpedoes try to be secretive about it? Furthermore, combat units use callsigns to conceal their command structure, or avoid revealing larger tactical plans. These are present in the mission's radio messages. By the time someone intercepted and translated them, the messages would no longer be relevant. Windtalkers had it all wrong. Smile
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    33lima
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by 33lima on Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:14 pm

    As a tank platoon commander, you would not have had your radio set(s) tuned into an enemy's frequency. Likely, you would not speak the enemy language and be unable to understand them, even if you did. And the use of callsigns and other codes would disguise the meaning of many messages.

    Hearing German messages in an IS-3 in a battle is simply not realistic.

    If - if - the Soviets had a specialist radio interception callsign who were familiar with German and had some understanding of whose radios they were listening in to, then at best, your on HQ might tell you, on your own radio net, that 'We have information that the enemy are reporting heavy losses' or something like that. Your company commander relaying information in guarded terms, that he had been given by the radio intercept unit. John Foley in 'Mailed Fist' recounts one similar incident in Normandy, involving a German signals vehicle which was up with the panzers and at one point, issued a fake order to the British Churchill squadron over their own radio net; then taunted the British, revealing that the Germans had cracked the ad hoc code the squadron was using.

    But hearing actual enemy radio transmissions isn't at all realistic. This is not Afghanistan and there is nothing as real-time and as pervasive as 'Icom'.

    What would be much more realistic, is simulated radio traffic from your OWN side.  In battle you would hear sighting, situation and contact reports from other platoons and ne orders or words of admonishment or encouragement from your own company commander.  It is good this mission has some of this, like the Wittman mission.

    Panzer Elite does a lot of this quite well, as well as letting the mission designer build radio traffic into missions. Some PE messages are a bit theatrical or too detailed like 'Enemy unit has been destroyed!' each time an enemy platoon has been completely wiped out, which is a bit gamey as you would not necessarily know this in real life. IIRC I replaced these with more realistic transmissions in my British Voice Pak for that sim.

    PS to Lockie - is there a new version of the mission available?

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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by Technopiper on Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:49 am

    Ah but the radio messages are in German, not Russian, which I wouldn't understand anyway! Wink Accidents do happen, it wouldn't be unusual for someone to tune in to live enemy transmission.

    Encoded messages aren't realistic in live combat: it is more important for friendlies to know immediately than for the enemies to not know. Despite what movies would have you believe, not everything from the enemy is intelligence. So what if the enemies found out about your bombardment coordinations *as the firing commence*?

    Back to the mission: German radio messages reveal that they are suffering from heavy casualty. I should know right?
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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

    Post by 33lima on Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:30 pm

    You are a platoon commander with a rather limited view of the battlefield. You should know what you can see for yourself and what other callsigns on the same radio net are able and choose to report to you. You should have such knowledge, but rarely if ever from enemy radio transmissions. That's the issue here.

    The PE 'Unit destroyed!' messages are a bit too 'all-knowing', but can be said to represent the above sort of friendly radio traffic.

    These SF German messages would be much more realistic, if they were presented as friendly, Soviet transmissions.

    You're perhaps misunderstanding what I mean by code. It is entirely realistic for various low-level codes to be used in radio transmissions - in fact it is essential and common.

    For example, during WW2, in Normandy anyway and at least in Ken Tout's unit, British tankers referred to enemy tanks as 'Hornets' on the radio. A form of code.

    In John Foley's book, he describes how his unit adopted a rough and ready code, using units of (pre-decimal) UK currency, for tanks, troops and squadrons (penny, sixpence and shilling, IIRC) when talking on the radio. This code was soon compromised; but the usual drill is to change easily-compromised codes regularly, if not daily, in signals instructions (to use the British Army term).

    In my day, the British Army used two different systems mainly to encode grid references for use on the radio (where necessary and appropriate) called Slidex and Griddle, the latter being 'quick and dirty'. IIRC the current system is called BATCO. Similar systems likely existed in WW2.

    Signals instructions, changed at intervals, would have listed the various code names for use on the radio, usually called nicknames or nick-numbers in my day. Along with callsigns, frequencies and other stuff. Nicknames would be used to refer to common situations or activities or to events in a plan. For example 'Red Dog' might have meant 'Phase 1 task completed'.

    Obviously it's not very practical to replicate much if any of this in a tanksim unless you want to get REALLY realistic and have players scribbling in notebooks, like you would in real life. They do this to an extent, in Steel Beasts, where if you look at game maps you can see objectives or phase lines marked with similar names.

    And tank radio operators were very careful to make sure their radios were 'netted in' properly before any operation. Netted in to their own radio network, not the enemy's. You would soon miss something rather more important otherwise, not to mention getting a rocket when the boss finds out that you have been 'off the air'.

    Doubtless examples existed when friend and foe had, without knowing, set frequencies close enought together for transmissions to break through and perhaps this mission could be said to represent such a rarity. It's just that if (as good mission designers should) you are going to program in some radio traffic to break SF's silence apart from intercom traffic. friendly transmissions on the course of the battle, representing reports or orders from other platoons and company HQ would be vastly more realistic. As done in Lockie's recent Wittman mission, for example.

    De gustibus non est disputandum - but realism is another matter.

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    Re: Mission: The Commie' last chance!(JS-3)

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