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    Did the KV-1 fight at Kursk?

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    woofiedog
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    Did the KV-1 fight at Kursk?

    Post by woofiedog on Tue May 26, 2015 5:24 pm

    A quote from lockie in another thread and post...

    Though, I'm not sure that KV-1 took part in Kursk battle anymore.

    Interesting question concerning the KV-1 tank and it's use on and during the Battle of Kursk, 1943.  

    One such KV-1 unit was the Soviet 2nd Bn,181st Tank Bde, 18th Corps that used the KV-1S tank. Which found themselves out gunned by no less than static Tiger tanks.  Capt. P. Skrypin KV-!S tank hit one of the Tiger's three times with no effect, while his own tank was hit twice killing the loader and badly wounding Skrypin.

    On July 12th the Bryansk Front committed six rifle divisions that were supported by three regiments of KV-1S tanks at the junction of the German 56 and 262 Infantry Divisions in the Orel salient. At first they succeeded in penetrating several kilo's into the German lines.

    However on July 13th these KV-1S's ran into German Hornisse and Marder units that were sent to block the KV-1's advance.

    After three days of trying to fight their way through these German anti-tank units the KV-1's were virtually destroyed.

    As said at the time, Soviet heavy tanks would no longer operate with near impunity, if they could be seen, they could be killed.

    The last of the KV-1's were built in Aug 43.

    However, this KV-1S (for "Skorostnoy" - "fast"), was still much more expensive than the T-34/76, for the relative same performances. By late 1943 there were concerns about the cancellation of this new version, which occurred after 1370 had been delivered, from autumn 1942 to the fall of 1943.

    Growing discontent about the type revolved usually around the same issues. It was too slow (easier to spot and target), prone to transmission failures, simply too heavy for many bridges and at the same time not equipped to ford deep rivers, and lacking range against the late 1942 German AT units and rearmed Panzer IVs. Late versions, even heavier, lost what was left of its former maneuverability, while at the same time still not being better armed than the T-34. Further heavy losses at Kursk proved they definitely found their match in the new German tanks generation.


    http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/soviet/soviet_KV-1.php

    Panzerjöger vs KV-1: Eastern Front 1941-43

    https://books.google.com/books?id=uS_NAwFgxc0C&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70&dq=KV-1S++Kursk&source=bl&ots=a7aFWU8XdV&sig=597p0NMFcPzOLFlPo_pn02Kd9Nc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xYxkVdjdIM2lyASC5oGQCA&ved=0CFkQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=KV-1S%20%20Kursk&f=false

    KV-1 & 2 Heavy Tanks 1939-45

    https://books.google.com/books?id=jpyKy2ctf1AC&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=kv-1+tank+kursk&source=bl&ots=P1HvxbJqyY&sig=tzXpRNXo37uAly_Rxw9anblu96I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ToZkVY-sDoTHsAWYuYGACQ&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=kv-1%20tank%20kursk&f=false
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    lockie
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    Re: Did the KV-1 fight at Kursk?

    Post by lockie on Tue May 26, 2015 5:47 pm

    Thanks Woofie for the interesting investigation, but I'd like to see mentions exactly abt. KV-1 not KV-1S, which is light version of KV-1.
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    woofiedog
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    Re: Did the KV-1 fight at Kursk?

    Post by woofiedog on Tue May 26, 2015 7:48 pm

    I was able to find this info concerning the KV-1's and the other Soviet tanks used during the battle, Seems that only the 262 tank regiment had 22 KV-1's on hand.

    Also a list of Soviet Units during Kursk.

    http://www.cgsc.edu/CARL/nafziger/943RGAB.PDF

    Soviet Tank Formations (Units and Equipment) from German Intelligence 1942 - 1944

    http://www.cgsc.edu/CARL/nafziger/942RAAB.PDF


    Central Front, 13th Army...

    129 TB... 10 KV-1, 21 T-34, 8 T-70, 10 T-60
    27 Gd TR... 24 KV-1S
    30 Gd TR... 20 KV-1S
    43 TR... 30 T-34/43, 16 T-70
    58 TR... 33 SU-76i
    237 TR... 32 T-34/43, 7 T-70
    1442 SUR... 16 SU-122

    48th Army...

    45 TR... 30 M-3 Grant, 9 M-3 Stuart, 8 SU-76
    193 TR... 55 M-3 Grant, 3 SU-76
    229 TR... 38 M-4/A2 Sherman
    1454 SUR... 16 SU-122, 1 T-34/43
    1455 SUR... 15 SU-122, 1 T-34/43
    1540 SUR... 12 SU-152, 1 KV-1S

    60th Army...

    150 TB 40 T-34/43, 22 T-70, 4 T-60

    65th Army...

    29 Gd TR... 19 KV-1S
    40 TR... 29 T-34/43, 7 T-70
    84 TR... 30 T-34/43, 3 T-70
    255 TR... 33 T-34/43, 6 T-70

    70th Army...

    240 TR... 32 T-34/43, 7 T-70
    251 TR... 31 T-34/43, 7 T-70
    259 TR... 34 T-34/43, 6 T-70

    2nd Tank Army...

    3 TC... 122 T-34/43, 70 T-70
    16 TC... 139 T-34/43, 45 T-70, 17 T-60
    11 Gd TB... 44 T-34/43, 10 T-70

    Front Reserve...

    9 TC... 125 T-34/43, 68 T-60
    19 TC... 107 T-34/43, 25 T-70, 36 T-60, 19 Matilda or Valentine
    1541 SUR... 12 SU-152, 1 KV-1S

    Voronezh Front, 6th Guards Army...

    96 TB...46 T-34/43, 5 T-70
    230 TR... 7 M-3 Grant, 32 M-3 Stuart
    245 TR... 27 M-3 Grant, 12 M-3 Stuart
    1440 SUR... 12 SU-122, 9 SU-76

    7th Guards Army...

    27 Gd TB... 54 T-34/43, 4 T-70
    201 TB... 3 T-34/43, 18 Mk II Matilda, 31 Mk III Valentine
    148 TR... 25 T-34/43, 6 T-70
    167 TR... 33 T-34/43, 11 T-70, 2 T-60
    262 TR... 22 KV-1
    1438 SUR... 12 SU-122, 9 SU-76
    1529 SUR... 12 SU-152, 1 KV-1

    38th Army...

    180 TB... 43 T-34/43, 23 T-70, 15 T-60
    192 TB... 31 M-3 Grant, 24 M-3 Stuart

    40th Army...

    86 TB... 46 T-34/43, 11 T-70, 15 T-60
    59 TR... 25 T-34/43, 9 T-70
    60 TR... 26 T-34/43, 9 T-70

    69th Army...

    1st Tank Army

    3 MC... 194 T-34/43, 35 T-70, 2 T-60
    6 TC... 138 T-34/43, 24 T-70, 10 T-60
    31 TC... 152 T-34/43, 30 T-70, 2 T-60

    Front Reserves...

    2 Gd TC... 121 T-34/43, 75 T-70, 21 Mk IV Churchill
    5 Gd TC... 106 T-34/43, 66 T-70, 21 Mk IV Churchill

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    lockie
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    Re: Did the KV-1 fight at Kursk?

    Post by lockie on Tue May 26, 2015 9:11 pm

    OK, I see now that at least 22 KV-1 took part in Kursk battle. Thanks, Woofie!
    And we may place KV-1S also! I think it'll be a good opponent to Pz.III N  Cool


    Last edited by lockie on Tue May 26, 2015 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    woofiedog
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    Re: Did the KV-1 fight at Kursk?

    Post by woofiedog on Tue May 26, 2015 9:12 pm

    Here is another site with info concerning Soviet Defensive Tactics at Kursk, July 1943 that might be of interest. This article does have some excellent maps of the battle.

    http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/download/csipubs/glantz2.pdf

    Did find "a" photo of a "KV-1 tank" that is suppose to be at "Kursk" 1943... could be... maybe... well, one thing is for sure, is that, it is a photo, that much is true. LoL  What a Face  

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    Re: Did the KV-1 fight at Kursk?

    Post by woofiedog on Tue May 26, 2015 9:12 pm

    Thank's Smile
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    kapulA
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    Re: Did the KV-1 fight at Kursk?

    Post by kapulA on Thu May 28, 2015 4:36 pm

    Of the KV-1 models present (other than the KV-1S), I assume an educated guess would be that they were either model 42s (with the heavier frontal armor and cast turret) or regular 41s with possibly some 41-E models scattered around...

    Also, thanks for posting those tank statistics woofie, great reference material!

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