Latest topics

» Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
by woofiedog Today at 9:52 pm

» Woofie the Dog's Skin Shop
by woofiedog Today at 9:25 pm

» Campaign: Otto Carius (WIP)
by lockie Today at 11:15 am

» Best laptop for playing
by Lightning62 Today at 10:36 am

» All of the command keys are set to ???
by lockie Today at 8:00 am

» Sta scranny 001:Error
by mechanic Yesterday at 9:51 pm

» Missing Keyboard Defaults
by Lightning62 Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:10 pm

» Any way to separate infantry from tanks?
by aleader Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:50 pm

» STA(Steel Tank Add-on) 3.2 (Steel Fury)
by Lightning62 Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:46 pm

December 2017

MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031

Calendar Calendar


    Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Share
    avatar
    woofiedog
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 1144
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Location : New England

    Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by woofiedog on Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:50 pm

    "To stand to death!"



    Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova and crew.

    The task I obtained personally from the division commander Baranov, told Kolobanov after war to Leningrad journalists. - he showed me on the map the fork of the roads, which go in the Luga and Kingisepp, and he ordered: "to overlap and to stand to death". Situation in the environs of Leningrad was such, that I perceived the order of division commander literally.

    Yes, to step back was already nowhere: behind was Leningrad

    On August 14, 1941, the vanguard of the German 8th Panzer Division approached Krasnogvardeysk (Gatchina) near Leningrad (now known again as Saint Petersburg), and the only Soviet force available at the time to attempt to stop the German advance consisted of five well-hidden KV-1 tanks, dug in within a grove at the edge of a swamp. KV-1 tank No. 864 was commanded by the leader of this small force, Lieutenant Zinoviy Kolobanov.


    http://survincity.com/2010/08/the-hero-does-not-become-a-hero-tank-kv/

    Foot note: After the battle, the crew of No. 865 counted a total of 135 hits on their tank, none of which had penetrated the armour. Lieutenant Kolobanov was awarded the Order of Lenin, while his driver Usov was awarded the Order of the Red Banner. Later on, former Captain Zinoviy Kolobanov was again decorated by Soviet authorities, despite having been convicted and downgraded after the Winter War for "fraternizing with the enemy." After the end of World War II, Lieutenant Kolobanov served in the Soviet occupation zone in East Germany, where he was convicted again when a subordinate escaped to the British occupation zone, and was transferred to the reserves.

    A of video clip concerning the Battle of Voiscovitsy in August 1941.

               

    "The Battle of Voiskovitsy"  by Oleg Titberiya
    avatar
    lockie
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 3776
    Join date : 2014-07-24
    Age : 50
    Location : Ukraine, Kyiv

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by lockie on Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:30 pm

    That's interesting story, but as it appeared it was a fair-tail from the Soviet propaganda.
    I was sure Kolobanov hit ~20+ tanks, but that was exaggerated greatly. According to documents from his Division there were 6 tanks destroyed only. Though, theoretically Kolobanov's tank could hit APC, trucks and tractors and finally calculate 20+ units. But in fact there are no any photos and document confirmations. No Soviet neither German.
    avatar
    woofiedog
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 1144
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Location : New England

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by woofiedog on Fri May 01, 2015 4:37 am

    but as it appeared it was a fair-tail from the Soviet propaganda.

    Thank's for the information and video concerning Lt Z. Kolobanova and the events of the Battle of Voiskovitsy.

    Will do a little more research before posting the next tank/armor story, but thought it was a fairly decent story, especially after playing out the "Бойова броня/Armor in Action (KV-1/F-32)" SF & Сталевий монстр/Steel monster" (KV-2) missions by MaxFH and thought the overall video quality of the Battle of Voiskovitsy was very good.  Cool

     
    avatar
    lockie
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 3776
    Join date : 2014-07-24
    Age : 50
    Location : Ukraine, Kyiv

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by lockie on Fri May 01, 2015 6:42 am

    Thank u, Woofie for the good words abt, new missions with KV!

    Did u try mission "Z.Kolobanov (KV-1e)"? It was made when me and Deviator believed to his battle score. Though, inspite on his fair-tail status this battle really had place. USSR need a good sample how to fight with German panzers, that's why this story was made out.

    GMP2.3x, No 16

    PS
    There are also:
    Unnamed Hill (KV-1), No 1
    Battle for the Village (KV-1e), No 3
    v.Gaitolovo, 28 September 1942 (KV-1e), No 24
    avatar
    woofiedog
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 1144
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Location : New England

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by woofiedog on Fri May 01, 2015 11:12 am

    Did u try mission "Z.Kolobanov (KV-1e)"?

    No, I have not played this mission yet, but will definitely give it a run. And have played the Unnamed Hill (KV-1), No 1. Overall the KV-1 is a great ride for the Soviet tanks, tough, fair amount of speed & maneuverability and a good supply of ammo.

    Another KV-1 action during the fighting around Leningrad during 1941.

    The Tragedy of the 124th Tank Brigade.

    http://sergey-larenkov.livejournal.com/14503.html


    Last edited by woofiedog on Sat May 02, 2015 12:48 am; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    woofiedog
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 1144
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Location : New England

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by woofiedog on Fri May 01, 2015 1:02 pm

    A web site with a readable 100 page book concerning the Siege of Leningrad 1941-1944.

    http://www.slideshare.net/Wolfsangel/leningrad-19411944
    avatar
    lockie
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 3776
    Join date : 2014-07-24
    Age : 50
    Location : Ukraine, Kyiv

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by lockie on Fri May 01, 2015 11:47 pm

    woofiedog wrote:he KV-1 is a great ride for the Russian tanks, tough, fair amount of speed & maneuverability and a good supply of ammo
    Woofie, I'd like to make a note. I know that for the how to say Western ppl (let's say from Europe and America), we are all Russian. But we are not.
    The former USSR was somekind as an imperial state. It was a very similar to USA. I mean there were 15 states and all of them were united - USSR.
    It does - every time when u or anybody call Russian tanks or Russians took part in WW2 it does that u don't count all other ppl, like me Ukrainian or like Deviator - Belorussian or like any other nations: Gypsy, Jewish, Georgian etc.
    So, if possible, then call ppl as it is - Soviet. Russians was just only the one nation in the former USSR.
    I'm not russian and never was. And all my relativities, which were killed by Communists with hunger, were never russians. We're Ukrainian and we have the country Ukraine. I do hope u understand me and my asking will be most appreciated.
    avatar
    woofiedog
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 1144
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Location : New England

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by woofiedog on Sat May 02, 2015 12:47 am

    I do hope u understand me and my asking will be most appreciated.

    Fully understand and will make changes from now on.
    avatar
    frinik
    TSF Member-Golden Feather
    TSF Member-Golden Feather

    Posts : 1405
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Age : 61
    Location : Bogota-Colombia

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by frinik on Sat May 02, 2015 5:12 am

    I for one fully understand. It also irks me that even the Germans when relating WW2 battles keep referring to the Russians ( when they don't use the term Bolsheviks or Soviets).This may be a habit that comes from Russian imperial times when the former Soviet Union was known as the Russian Empire.

    The unlamented USSR was nothing like the American union which was , for the most part, a voluntary union of states but more like a forced union ( like the Russian empire) of peoples subjugated by the Russians ( Ukrainians, Balts, Caucasians, Central Asians, Jews , ethnic Germans, Finns , Bulgarians, Mongols, Kamulks, Koreans etc)
    avatar
    woofiedog
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 1144
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Location : New England

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by woofiedog on Sat May 02, 2015 7:41 pm

    I for one fully understand. It also irks me that even the Germans when relating WW2 battles keep referring to the Russians

    Yes, it is just like when people call us that live here in New England area "Yankees", which is actually a derogatory term when used by most people.
    avatar
    frinik
    TSF Member-Golden Feather
    TSF Member-Golden Feather

    Posts : 1405
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Age : 61
    Location : Bogota-Colombia

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by frinik on Sun May 03, 2015 4:51 am

    I think it's a British or Dutch moniker...

    Or it's like when Americans refer to their country (the US) as America depriving the rest of the inhabitants of the American continent of the title....
    avatar
    woofiedog
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 1144
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Location : New England

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by woofiedog on Sun May 03, 2015 11:33 am

    Americans refer to their country (the US) as America depriving the rest of the inhabitants of the American continent of the title

    The slang term Yankee is very seldom used here except when we are referring to the NY Yankee's baseball team. About the only time I do hear it used is when one of my relatives or friends from the southern area of the country are talking about us. Or when some country is protesting the US and the marchers are chanting Yankee Go Home and are carrying signs with the same written on the signs.

    So as I stated, the slang term Yankee is actually a derogatory term when used by most people.
    avatar
    frinik
    TSF Member-Golden Feather
    TSF Member-Golden Feather

    Posts : 1405
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Age : 61
    Location : Bogota-Colombia

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by frinik on Sun May 03, 2015 2:16 pm

    I heard you Woofie; \I was simply making a parallel between calling people of the Soviet Union Russians instead of Soviets as a mistake similar to calling the United States just America as obviously America is a continent not a country.

    Now as for Yankees the short version Yanks has become a virtual  "familiar" and not necessarily derogatory term for Americans a bit like calling the British Brits or the Canadians as Canucks or like black Americans referring to each other as "Niggas" or the British referring to the Germans as Jerries...

    The origin of the word Yankee seems to be either British or Dutch and may not have had originally a derogaroty connotation..
    avatar
    woofiedog
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 1144
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Location : New England

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by woofiedog on Sun May 03, 2015 5:14 pm

    Quote...

    The word is a derogatory term used to describe Americans by the Brits, Canadians, Australians and the like; but in the USA used to define an American from the Northern States in the USA, such as New England and the Mid-West.

    It was most notably used to describe to the Federal Solders and other Northerners by the Confederates during the Civil War Era. Even though some foreigner’s refer to all American’s as Yankees, does not make it so. Call a Southerner a Yankee and he’ll think you’re either just plain dumb or that you are trying to pick a fight.

    The characteristics often associated with a stereotypical Yankee are shrewdness, thrift, craftiness, rudeness, arrogance, and loudness.

    To foreigners, a Yankee is an American.
    To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner.
    To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander.
    To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter.
    And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast

    Tanker
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 379
    Join date : 2014-07-27

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by Tanker on Sun May 03, 2015 6:32 pm

    frinik wrote:I think it's a British or Dutch moniker...

    Or it's like when Americans refer to their country (the US) as America depriving the rest of the inhabitants of the American continent of the title....

    Pure poppycock. No one is deprived of anything. Mexicans or Canadians can call themselves Americans all they wish. No one will understand what they are talking about. The citizens of the United States of America have been referred to as Americans and their nation as America all around the globe ever since the country was founded. The inhabitants of the 13 original colonies were called Americans by the British. When I'm asked what my citizenship is by an immigration official I quite properly respond American, and he understands perfectly which country I'm from. No other nation has the word America as part of it's full and formal name. It's only logical that the USA and it's citizens should be called America and Americans.

    While you may be technically correct (but according to your theory we should call ourselves North Americans) the tide of custom and usage has made the distinction moot.

    Tanker
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 379
    Join date : 2014-07-27

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by Tanker on Sun May 03, 2015 6:36 pm

    woofiedog wrote:Quote...

    The word is a derogatory term used to describe Americans by the Brits, Canadians, Australians and the like; but in the USA used to define an American from the Northern States in the USA, such as New England and the Mid-West.

    It was most notably used to describe to the Federal Solders and other Northerners by the Confederates during the Civil War Era. Even though some foreigner’s refer to all American’s as Yankees, does not make it so. Call a Southerner a Yankee and he’ll think you’re either just plain dumb or that you are trying to pick a fight.

    The characteristics often associated with a stereotypical Yankee are shrewdness, thrift, craftiness, rudeness, arrogance, and loudness.

    To foreigners, a Yankee is an American.
    To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner.
    To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander.
    To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter.
    And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast

    LOL, nice list. As a native Vermonter, I view Mainers as typical Yankees.
    The rudeness, arrogance and loudness attributes are only attached to the term by foreigners.
    avatar
    woofiedog
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 1144
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Location : New England

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by woofiedog on Sun May 03, 2015 8:38 pm

    The rudeness, arrogance and loudness attributes are only attached to the term by foreigners.

    Funny, I always thought these were our better attributes.

    And matter of fact... while we were out for a walk today, there was the true coming of spring in the area, our beloved state bird the Black Fly's are out! Laughing

    avatar
    frinik
    TSF Member-Golden Feather
    TSF Member-Golden Feather

    Posts : 1405
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Age : 61
    Location : Bogota-Colombia

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by frinik on Mon May 04, 2015 5:17 am

    Tanker , calling the inhabitants of the USA American is fine because there's no alternative and it's customary; I mean you can't call yourselves United Staters right? But the US as a country should be properly referred as the US or United States not America. Poppycock all you want but it's my opinion and that of millions of other people in the Americas....

    The British used to refer to their colonial compatriots as American colonists and as Americans only after 1776.

    The Latin Americans almost never call Americans Americanos but Estadounidenses ( os Estadunidenses in Port.) , less frequently los Norteamericanos . The country is referred as los Estados Unidos ( the same in Portuguese).

    In any event, you are perfectly entitled to call your country America as I am perfectly entitled to correcting you and saying it should be called the US or USA.... But it does not mean the rest of the World agrees with that.

    Personally I find that Americans in general are no louder, more arrogant nor brash than the average European... and that's coming from a proud European-born person... Every Westerner outside his country tends to be loud and arrogant and it may have to do with the tendency of the average tourist to either try to impress or just to act in away they would not dare to in their own country. I have found more class and good behaviour in American tourists than in most working class blokes from England I have seen on the beaches of Europe, North Africa, Asia or the Americas. By far the least classy ones are the Russians....

    Tanker
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 379
    Join date : 2014-07-27

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by Tanker on Mon May 04, 2015 11:35 pm

    Frinik, as you say, the US has been referred to as America since it's beginning. No other nation will or has called itself America. I'm willing to bet that if you ask people, in English, in any corner of the globe what or where America is, that the great majority of responses will be that it is the United States. America is synonymous with the USA across the world. I think it is mainly South Americans that have any heart burn about the US being called America and that's mostly the ones that have an axe to grind against Uncle Sam.
    avatar
    lockie
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 3776
    Join date : 2014-07-24
    Age : 50
    Location : Ukraine, Kyiv

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by lockie on Mon May 04, 2015 11:49 pm

    I've to confess that word "America" associated for me exactly as the USA. BUT I pretty much know there is another America - South America, where there are such countries as Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Bolivia...
    It's a paradox or may be it is tradition to associate "America" with the USA and "Uncle Sam" and of course with a taxes Very Happy

    PS
    Though, may be I watch too many American movies Smile
    avatar
    frinik
    TSF Member-Golden Feather
    TSF Member-Golden Feather

    Posts : 1405
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Age : 61
    Location : Bogota-Colombia

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by frinik on Tue May 05, 2015 10:03 am

    The irony is that the word America was initially coined by Mercator, a German cartographer( his latinized name .Real name Martin Waldseemueller) to honour the Italian Americo Vespucci and his discovery of new lands in Central America , Brazil and the West Indies which he said were a new continent and had nothing to do with Asia as Colombus had wrongly believed. Thus the term America referred to these new lands which are in what we now call Latin America. It had nothing to do with the US or North America which were yet to be explored by Europeans.
    avatar
    woofiedog
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 1144
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Location : New England

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by woofiedog on Tue May 05, 2015 5:56 pm

    Frinik... The bottom line to this debate is that, I fully understand and concur with Lockie's statement concerning the use and meaning of the words Russian and Soviet.

    And frankly here in America we can call ourselves anything we please, as this privlage and freedom has been paid for and is still being paid for right up to the very present day and hour/minute.

    But people using the slang term "Yankee" is actually a derogatory term when used by most people and no matter how you try and put a spin on it, it is still a derogatory term just like many other terms use by the world today to describe the people of the USA and our American way of life.


    Tanker
    TSF Member
    TSF Member

    Posts : 379
    Join date : 2014-07-27

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by Tanker on Wed May 06, 2015 1:59 am

    frinik wrote:The irony is that the word America was initially coined by Mercator, a German cartographer( his latinized name .Real name Martin Waldseemueller) to honour the Italian Americo Vespucci and his discovery of new lands in Central America , Brazil and the West Indies which he said were a new continent and had nothing to do with Asia as Colombus had wrongly believed.  Thus the term America referred to these new lands which are in what we now call Latin America. It had nothing to do with the US or North America which were yet to be explored by Europeans.

    Nonetheless, it is the USA that is known world wide as America today, not Latin America. There is not one Latin American who would deign to identify his country as America.

    Furthermore, can you imagine the inconvenience to the government hired crowds in Teheran if they had to shout death to the United States of America instead of just death to America during their episodic spontaneous outbursts? Not to mention that wonderful song, "America the Beautiful" would just not be the same if it were United States of America the Beautiful.
    avatar
    mechanic

    Posts : 160
    Join date : 2014-11-03

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by mechanic on Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:06 am

    Kolobanov did not hit 22 tanks. AFV were counted instead tanks.
    On the morning of 19 August, Kolobanov's KV-ls, which were the 'ekranami' model with extra 35mm-thick armour plates welded on the turret, waited hull-down in ambush.36 Once again, the 8.Panzer-Division demonstrated a propensity for falling into enemy ambushes and a certain tactical mediocrity, as its lead kampfgruppe drove straight into the kill zone unaware. Kolobanov's five KV-l opened fire at a range of 450 meters, engaging the lead elements of the Panzer-Aufklarungs-Abteilung 59 (reconnaissance battalion) and quickly destroyed an assortment of armoured cars, half tracks and wheeled vehicles. Panzerjager-Abteilung 43 tried to deploy its 3.7cm and 5cm Pak into firing positions on the road, but Kolobanov easily blasted them to pieces with high explosive rounds and then hosed down the survivors with his 7.62mm coax machine-gun. The IU./Panzer Regiment 10 managed to get a company or more into action, but its Pz.38(t) and Pz.IV could not defeat Kolobanov's platoon.
    Kolobanov's tank was hit repeatedly without being knocked out, although his sights were eventually demolished and his turret jammed. He broke off the action after firing his entire basic load of ninety-eight rounds. The Soviets claimed that Kolobanov's platoon had destroyed forty-two German tanks, including twenty-two by Kolobanov himself, without a single KV-1 being lost. While Soviet kill claims were exaggerated by counting every AFV as a tank, there was little doubt that General Erich Brandenberger's 8.Panzer-Division had gotten another bloody nose. The KV had also demonstrated that it was an excellent defensive tank.

    Tank Warfare on the Eastern Front 1941-1942: Schwerpunkt by Robert Forczyk
    avatar
    frinik
    TSF Member-Golden Feather
    TSF Member-Golden Feather

    Posts : 1405
    Join date : 2014-07-27
    Age : 61
    Location : Bogota-Colombia

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by frinik on Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:08 am

    Furthermore, can you imagine the inconvenience to the government hired crowds in Teheran if they had to shout death to the United States of America instead of just death to America during their episodic spontaneous outbursts? Not to mention that wonderful song, "America the Beautiful" would just not be the same if it were United States of America the Beautiful.

    Tanker: May be the crowds in Tehran ought to be encouraged to scream: USA! USA!USA! Wink


    Sponsored content

    Re: Lieutenant Z. Kolobanova "To Stand to the Death!" Battle of Voiskovitsy

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:06 pm