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    Hit effects

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    lockie
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    Cologne Panther

    Post by lockie on Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:38 pm

    Donken wrote:There are a few other interesting things you can see that we can somehow fix in SF, look at how the effect is when it hits the Panther, no explosion!
    Do u mean "no explosion" at all? But I saw some pictures with decapitated tanks. I does - it was explosion. And I'm not sure that on the base of one video we can make the common conclusion.
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    lockie
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by lockie on Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:16 pm

    Donken wrote:There should be no explosion, its logic! Ap ammo is not explosive! Not even with the explosive filler that the Germans used it should be an explosion like that!
    But why there "should be no explosion"? It's not obvious for me. Here's photo of destroyed Panther.

    I'm sure there was explosion. If AP shell could not be explosive, then what abt. fuel tank?

    It should just be big boom and lots of sparks and debris with lots of smoke.
    Things should only explode if it hits the ammo or fuel or if we use high explosives.
    Then there should be shader(micro-program), which is responsible for such effect. It's located here:
    ...data\k42\loc_rus\effects

    Compare that footage against a shot made with any tank in sf and with ap ammo! Then compare it with other games. No explosion when anti tank ammo hits the target.
    In SF there is no explosion any time when u hit the other tank. It's quite seldom epizode. Anyway, I don't mind to see a new/updated effect in the game Cool
    The problem is - I'm completely out of skill in programming  C++

    PS
    Here's another part in common.res, which is responsible for AP hit:

    parts_groups_desc()
    {
    shot,shot,smoke_sh,,,,;
    gunbrake,shot,smoke_sh,,,,;
    smoke_path,smoke_path,,,,,;
    mg_shot,mg_shot,mg_smoke_sh,,,,;
    ap_expl,flash,dust,pieces,smoke,piece,;
    he_expl,flash,dust,pieces,smoke,piece,spark;
    ...
    }


    Last edited by lockie on Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    33lima
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by 33lima on Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:45 pm

    There's a good example of what I think Donken means at 1:30 in this clip.



    The flash and blast from a hit on the side of the Pz III is excessive. A bright flash, some sparks and some dust and maybe flying fragments dislodged from the target would look more realistic.

    The hits on the reversing T-62 from 1:19 onwards look quite realistic:


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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by lockie on Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:05 am

    33lima wrote:The hits on the reversing T-62 from 1:19 onwards look quite realistic:
    This is fake video. As I know there is now such area in SABOW (or in case this is GTOS, then there is no T-62). Anyway, I've to say hit effect looks quite impressive! Would be nice to see smth. similar in SF also.
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by 33lima on Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:14 am

    Yes the video seems to have been based in GTOS terrain! It looks like an early prmotional one.

    Anyway a more realistic effect in SF would be nice, but the existing one isn't too bad; it doesn't really bother me. A slightly shorter (reduced duration) and slightly smaller flash effect, a little less of that brown smoke, and it would be better. More like the muzzle flash effect used for the 50mm guns firing, on the Pz IIIs as they are approaching, in that same SF video.
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by lockie on Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:59 am

    OK, now I see what do u mean. I think u should play with parts_groups_desc
    There are the next:
    parts_groups_desc()// defines what and how many parts included in 'hit effect'
    generators_desc()// tracer effect
    vis_expl_mats()// material parts of effect
    vis_expl_pats()// visual sprite pattern of effect
    phys_expl_pats()// physical life of effect

    Let's try:
    ap_expl,flash,,pieces,,piece,;

    Also, u may try to create a new hit effect for APC shell, i.e:
    apc_expl,flash,,pieces,,,;
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by frinik on Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:14 am

    An interesting experiment about being inside a Tiger I when hit by AP rounds.



    The interior of a Panther .How small and really not a job for claustrophobes!



    As for the argument of tanks not getting blown up , Donken is right that AP ammo is not explosive thus cannot on its own blow a tank up. However when hitting the inside of a tank compartment containing fuel the heat from kinetic energy given off by the slamming shell can easily ignite the fuel or hit the HE shells triggering a detonation which would create an internal explosion blowing up the tank .Here's a  modern example with a Syrian T-72  cooked from the inside after being hit by an AT rocket. The weapons may have changed somewhat but the effects are pretty much the same. Modern AT rockets/missiles are not explosive either .



    Another one another Soviet tank:



    And finally a WW2 one a Sov tank hit by a Tiger I;




    Personally, I think the effects in SF are not unrealistic but rather understated as the damage model is limited and tanks cannot be decapitated as sometimes happened in real life. The effects are better than those of T34 vs Tiger, PE or i44( mod for Arma2)/.
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by lockie on Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:50 am

    frinik wrote:
    And finally a WW2 one a Sov tank hit by a Tiger I


    According to this video, "hit effect" in SF presented correctly. I think for the outer areas it's OK, but for the town there should be "hit effect" as on video with Panther.


    Last edited by lockie on Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:51 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by Txema on Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:04 pm

    Interesting videos !

    And what about the hit sound when the PLAYER's tank is hit?



    see around 1:12

    "Listen to the hull ring like a bell as the round hits"

    In Steel Fury I hear nothing when my tank is hit. This is a very important immersion problem for me (and also a playing problem because sometimes you don't notice that your tank is being hit until you are dead and sometimes it has been hit several times without the player noticing it...)

    Can you hear the hit sound when your tank is hit??

    Txema


    Last edited by Txema on Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by frinik on Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:13 pm

    Rarely and the sound is very subdued.I tried to remedy that 2 weeks ago by installing an interior hit sound which I placed in the inner subfolder in the general sounds folder. Unfortunately had to remove it because it made the game crash...Otherwise I would  have gladly shared it.

    Lockie; where do you get that folder? I checked all my installs and I don't have it anywhere???

    ...data\k42\loc_rus\effects

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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by Tanker on Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:15 pm

    Txema wrote:Interesting videos !

    And what about the hit sound when the PLAYER's tank is hit?



    see around 1:12

    "Listen to the hull ring like a bell as the round hits"

    In Steel Fury I hear nothing when my tank is hit. This is a very important inmerssion problem for me (and also a playing problem because sometimes you don't notice that your tank is being hit until you are dead and sometimes it has been hit several times without the player noticing it...)

    Can you hear the hit sound when your tank is hit??

    Txema

    That particular video uses a scale model of a Tiger. It's not a real tank or real armor.

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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by Tanker on Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:23 pm

    I would think that the action of an AP shell hitting armor would result in a shower of sparks, and I'm sure some sound inside the tank.  Unless the AP shell penetrated the tank and ignited the ammo I would not expect a dramatic explosion with a huge dust cloud.  If the round just penetrated, without igniting anything on the inside, there would just be the sparks. I think the Cologne Panther video shows that well.


    Last edited by Tanker on Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by Tanker on Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:27 pm

    lockie wrote:



    According to this video, "hit effect" in SF presented correctly. I think for the outer areas it's OK, but for the town there should be "hit effect" as on video with Panther.

    We really don't know the context of that video.  Was the tank hit with AP?  Was the explosion shown from the hit of the shell or from an ammo explosion caused by the penetration of the shell?  Too many unknowns to draw a conclusion.
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by lockie on Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:07 pm

    frinik wrote:
    Lockie, where do you get that folder? I checked all my installs and I don't have it anywhere???
    ...data\k42\loc_rus\effects
    At the default it is hidden. U've to unpack it. Use 0_arceditor.bat to open effects.datapack

    Txema wrote:
    And what about the hit sound when the PLAYER's tank is hit?
    I think we can't replace completely default sound, but u can try to randomize it.
    Create new sound with "bell" effect, name it as "col_metal_metal_01.wav" and place it in folder:
    ...data\k42\loc_rus\sounds\cols

    Format sound should be: PCM, 44100Hz, 16 bits, mono or stereo
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by lockie on Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:22 pm

    Theoretically, it's possible to hear only personal "hit". At this moment, user may hear all collision sounds, when shell hit one or other tanks.

    There are two files:
    ...Steel Fury - Kharkov 1942\root\programs\k42menu.program
    ...Steel Fury - Kharkov 1942\root\programs\k42game.program
    with entry:
    colsounds, 0x90, 1, 2, 0, 0, 20.0, 200.0, 0.7, _sfx, 0, true, 1, 0, 0.3;

    where:
    20 - min distance
    200 - max distance

    I think, if change 20->5 and 200->6, then user may hear only collision sounds, which hits his tank.
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by 33lima on Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:47 pm

    Those hits on Syrian Army AFVs are by weapons equipped with single or tandem HEAT rounds. Even if the target is not hit on Explosive Reactive Armour bricks, such a hit will generate an external explosion whose appearance I expect to be not unlike an HE round detonating on the outside of a tank. The SF visual hit effect is a pretty good representation of this but not, I think, of an AP (kinetic energy) projectile hitting an armoured vehicle - regardless of whether or not the AP round has an HE filler fused to (maybe) detonate after penetration, or is just a solid shot.
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    Hit effects

    Post by 33lima on Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:53 pm

    lockie wrote:
    frinik wrote:
    And finally a WW2 one a Sov tank hit by a Tiger I


    According to this video, "hit effect" in SF presented correctly. I think for the outer areas it's OK, but for the town there should be "hit effect" as on video with Panther.

    I think that sequence in the video clip is showing a T-34 blowing up from an internal explosion, maybe a while after it was hit and penetrated. It looks like something inside has been burning for a while, before the tank blew up. The PK cameramen showing a Tiger shooting just before, doesn't mean the two things happened together, it's just two sequences spliced together to look dramatic. That is surely not just the immediate effect of an AP round hitting the tank. Many tanks on the battlefield are hit over and over again because the enemy cannot tell the tanks are killed. That is why one modern US tanker motto is 'Keep shooting till it changes shape'.
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by frinik on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:33 pm

    True enough. I suspect this pic was edited by the propaganda arm of Signal. Nevertheless tank do blow up and a striking AP shell even without explosive can trigger an explosion if it hits the tank's ammo supply which includes HE shells or the gas tank where the vapours inside will ignite...

    Lockie; can you please explain how I unpack the effects folder using the 0_arceditor.bat?It may be obvious to you but I have tried and there's no option to do that.
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by lockie on Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:03 pm

    frinik wrote:
    Lockie, can you please explain how I unpack the effects folder using the 0_arceditor.bat? It may be obvious to you but I have tried and there's no option to do that.
    Could u tell where did u meet problem?
    1. Start 0_arceditor.bat
    2. Open effects.datapack
    3. unpack/extract folder effects
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by frinik on Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:39 am

    When I click on 0_arceditor a screen called Archive's editor opens up. There are 4 options I can choose from:
    - File

    - Record

    - Batch

    - About

    There's no effects.datapack that comes up whatever option I choose?????

    if it's missing from my game could you please upload it?
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by lockie on Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:29 am

    frinik wrote:When I click on 0_arceditor a screen called Archive's editor opens up. There are 4 options I can choose from:
    - File
    Then choose File and press Open Wink
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    Re: Hit effects

    Post by frinik on Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:42 pm

    I didthat and it sends me to some missions datapack. As i said i triedall 4 options without results...



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