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    Compass and o'clock

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    lockie
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    Compass and o'clock

    Post by lockie on Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:36 am


    I'd like to note that on the new compass o'clock attached to the degrees, but not to the tank hull. I.e.: 30, 45, 60, 75 degrees corresponds to 2 o'clock. NORTH to twelve o'clock. SOUTH to six.
    I'm pretty sure it's impossible to define 30 or 60 degrees the target is. 2 o'clock is a common sense.


    Last edited by lockie on Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:42 pm; edited 2 times in total

    Txema
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    Re: Compass and o'clock

    Post by Txema on Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:36 pm

    lockie wrote:Compass updated. now user may see o'clock also. This feature is extremely useful, if u don't use highlighted(marked) targets and have to be relayed on Commander's hints and er lucky.

    There is issue with 7 & 8. Will be fixed.

    Hi Lockie !

    I can not understand how can we use the o'clock marks that you have added to the compass. The tank commander gives the target direction in degrees in Steel Fury, and moreover the direction in degrees is referred to the north, and not to the tank hull... then why do we want the o'clock marks in the the compass?

    Txema
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    lockie
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    Compass and o'clock

    Post by lockie on Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:08 pm

    Txema wrote:
    I can not understand how can we use the o'clock marks that you have added to the compass.
    The tank commander gives the target direction in degrees in Steel Fury
    No. Tank commander gives the target direction in o'clock for american/british crew.

    and moreover the direction in degrees is referred to the north, and not to the tank hull... then why do we want the o'clock marks in the the compass?
    That's why I gave explanation that o'clock attached to degrees, but not to the hull. This is only for the users who don't use target markers. The problem is american/british crew has instead azimuth only o'clock sounding. When I hear "1 o'clock" I look on the compass and see where the target is and I don't need to read the hints on the screen.

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    33lima
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    Re: Compass and o'clock

    Post by 33lima on Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:14 pm

    When I hear "1 o'clock" I look on the compass and see where the target is and I don't need to read the hints on the screen.

    I'm confused too now, although the explanation above might explain why I believed clock code target indications were broken in SF.

    Forget about the fact that real British WW2 tankers didn't use clock codes - the tank commander indicated a target to his gunner by saying (eg) 'Seventy-five, traverse left...steady...ON!'

    The Germans DID use the clock code for this purpose, saying instead something like 'Turret to ten o'clock!' - that is 'Gunner, traverse the turret to pont the main gun half left'.

    Playing panzers in SF with no target markers, I listen for the commander. But I have found that when he says 'ten o'clock' he doesn't use the front of the tank as the axis - as twelve o'clock.

    From your explanation, Lockie, the TC uses compass NORTH as twelve o'clock. Is that REALLY how this works???

    That would explain what I was experiencing - confusion, because the TC's 12 o'clock was north, but MY 12 o'clock was straight ahead of the tank.

    I play with all the on-screen aids turned off - I just jurn them on if I need to check the ammo I want loaded. But it seems the only way to make sense of the TC's spoken target indications is to keep the on-screen aids turned on, so that I can see the compass.


    What is really needed is for the target indications to use straight ahead of the tank as twelve o'clock.
    It is really daft to do anything else, whether for tanks or aircraft - 'Bandits at 6 o'clock' means right behind, no need to look at a compass!!! But in SF, it seems 'Watch your six!' doesn't mean 'Watch your back!' - unless you just happen to be facing due north!!! Weird! If your tank commander says the target is at one o'clock, you should look just left of straight ahead of your tank.

    I don't suppose this can be fixed...
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    lockie
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    Re: Compass and o'clock

    Post by lockie on Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:38 pm

    33lima wrote:I'm confused too now, although the explanation above might explain why I believed clock code target indications were broken in SF.
    OK, I'll remove o'clock from the compass in the next update. I'll make mod "compass+o'clock" as a separate one.

    Forget about the fact that real British WW2 tankers didn't use clock codes - the tank commander indicated a target to his gunner by saying (eg) 'Seventy-five, traverse left...steady...ON!'
    The Germans DID use the clock code for this purpose, saying instead something like 'Turret to ten o'clock!' - that is 'Gunner, traverse the turret to pont the main gun half left'.
    It doesn't matter what the system did use German/British, coz game has only one system of orientation - azimuth, we can do nothing.
    BTW what is the system in SABOW?

    From your explanation, Lockie, the TC uses compass NORTH as twelve o'clock. Is that REALLY how this works???
    Yes, this is because I don't have English speech for the English crew to indicate azimuth, only o'clock.

    That would explain what I was experiencing - confusion, because the TC's 12 o'clock was north, but MY 12 o'clock was straight ahead of the tank. But in SF, it seems 'Watch your six!' doesn't mean 'Watch your back!' - unless you just happen to be facing due north!!! Weird! If your tank commander says the target is at one o'clock, you should look just left of straight ahead of your tank.
    I may remove o'clock indication also and there won't be speech except hints on the screen, but I need a couple requests from other users also.
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    33lima
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    Re: Compass and o'clock

    Post by 33lima on Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:21 pm

    I think the clock code on the compass is a GOOD idea, because it helps the player understand the daft SF use of the code. You just look at the combined clock and compass rose, and don't have to translate 10 o'clock in your head into 'east north-east' or 300 degrees or whatever it is. It's a good mod - it helps make sense of a daft system.

    I'm not sure what they use in SABOW as I don't speak any of the languages they speak and I don't notice the text!

    In Panzer Elite they do it right - twelve o'clock is straight ahead of your tank.

    In SF, if the TCs really must use north as their axis, it would be a lot better if they just gave the compass bearing to the taget - for example, 'Target, bearing 270!' instead of 'Target, nine o'clock!'.

    It is completely daft, for SF to use the clock code, when you are using compass north as your axis. Using a realistic method (clock code) UN-realistically (with compass north as the axis, not your front) is just daft beyond belief - and bad for the player.

    The way to do this would be to re-record all target indications this way - in Russian, in German and in US and/or British English. Maybe the on-screen text already does this and it it just the voices which use the clock code.
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    33lima
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    Re: Compass and o'clock

    Post by 33lima on Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:49 am

    PS - T-34 vs Tiger does it right.

    As the screenshot below shows, 12 o'clock is straight ahead, regardless of the compass bearing.



    The next screenshot shots that this sim replicates the tank commander's turret position indicator, in this case showing that the black triangle is correctly lined up just past one o'clock on the little rotating scale, which exactly corresponds with the position of the turret in the graphic HUD display, bottom right.



    Finally, the screenshot below shows that the tank commander's fire control order uses the clock code - and uses it correctly, with 12 o'clock ahead, regardless of where north is. I can confirm that the spoken order is the same as the text displayed.


    Tanker
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    Re: Compass and o'clock

    Post by Tanker on Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:48 am

    SABOW gives target contact as "tank left 1 (or 2,3,4 etc) or right 1, or 2,3,4 etc) That is left or right of 0 which is straight ahead at 12 O'clock as related to the hull.


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