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    Mission: Battle of Villers-Bocage (Pz.VI "Tiger")

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    lockie
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    Re: Mission: Battle of Villers-Bocage (Pz.VI "Tiger")

    Post by lockie on Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:24 pm

    33lima wrote: most things in SABOW are better, for example:

    - tank commander's target indications are easier to follow - Graviteam no longer use the compass bearing like SF, but in SABOW, use a less strange system which is not as intuitive as the clock code, but much better, combined with a small turret position indicator icon at the bottom of the screen.
    Could u be more detailed with a strange system in Armor Blaze? In SF there is compass, which pretty much corresponds to the reality. I mean u've a compass direction/azimuth and have to use to indicate target and make a route on the map. As for wingmen, then u've have a marks on the map(which is cheat) and u may estimate where they are. Of course, u may uncheck this cheat feature and use only gunsight devices or put out commander's head through the hatch to watch on the wingmen.
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    33lima
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    Re: Mission: Battle of Villers-Bocage (Pz.VI "Tiger")

    Post by 33lima on Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:19 pm

    A compass isn't the right system for a tank commander to issue fire orders - not in the Werhmacht, not in the British Army. It seems to have been, in the Soviet Army.

    WW2 Battle Tanks - T-34 v Tiger gets the German WW2 method right. This is based on the simple concept that twelve o'clock is considered to be straight ahead (of the body of the tank, not the direction the barrel is pointing). The commander starts off something like 'Turret to ten o'clock...'

    The British system is simpler. The TC says 'Six Pounder, traverse left!'. Then when it is hearly lined un, he says 'Steady! (= 'traverse more slowly'). When the gun is lined up he says 'On!' (= 'on target').

    Most British tanks had a sighting vane in the front of the TC's hatch or cupola to help with this sysyem. At least some German tanks had a turret position scale, driven off the turret traverse, to show the commander the turret position.


    The problems with the SF system are:

    1. it cannot be used unless you have the compass displayed (and you have to display ALL the on-screen aids - unlike T-34 -v- tiger, where you can decide which on-screen aids you want to display to turn on.

    2. confusingly and foolishly, SF uses two  different systems at the same time, inGerman anyway. The text displals compass bearing to the target. But the German TC uses the clock code says 'Funf uhr', Zwolf urh' etc. First, it is daft to use two systems. Second, the clock code is used NOT so that (as in the REAL German WW2 system ) 12 o'c;ock is straight ahead, but that 12 = due north, compass bearing 0 or 360 degrees. It would be better if SF just used the clock code AND had 12 o'clock as straight ahead.

    This is what Panzer Elite does. It is a MUCH better system. It is closest to the German WW2 system but it is a good one and fine that it is used for all nationalities in PE

    Graviteam seemed to agree SF was not good. In SABOW they have replaced the SF system with a new method, which is unusual but ok when you understand it, and it has less obtrusive on-screen aids.

    I am not saying that SF isn't playable, just that it has some problems which have been addressed in SABOW.

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    Re: Mission: Battle of Villers-Bocage (Pz.VI "Tiger")

    Post by Tanker on Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:31 am

    I agree with 33lima. A compass should be used for navigation and a clock system (with 12 o'clock being directly to the front of the hull, not the turret) should be used for target designation. It is simple, and instinctual.

    The one used in Sabow is a close relative to the clock system. It is based on the facing of the hull, just as the clock system is. Instead of calling out 10 o'clock or 3 o'clock, 5 left (0 being directly ahead of the hull) or 8 right, for example, is used. Basically it is a clock type system. It's very easy to use.
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    lockie
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    Re: Mission: Battle of Villers-Bocage (Pz.VI "Tiger")

    Post by lockie on Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:39 am

    33lima, Tanker
    Thanks for explanations. Unfortunately, we can do nothing to fix compass orientation Sad
    There was partly decision, when I placed 1,2,3...12 on the compass, thus I didn't need to read hints, coz thanks to voice I knew where the target was. Now these digits removed from the compass. Though me and will73 still have left them, coz it's comfortable Smile
    The author of this message was banned from the forum - See the message
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    lockie
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    Re: Mission: Battle of Villers-Bocage (Pz.VI "Tiger")

    Post by lockie on Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:28 pm

    Donken wrote:
    I think you can change how they behave
    No, I can't Smile We tried, but failed.

    I would have done it myself but dont have the time im afraid Sad
    Are we in hurry? Smile Cool Very Happy
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    lockie
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    Re: Mission: Battle of Villers-Bocage (Pz.VI "Tiger")

    Post by lockie on Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:03 pm

    33lima, I've read report abt. mission "Viller-Bocage v.1". It has been written excellent and a very detailed! I like it! Personal thanks for the great screens! They are beautiful  bom

    Just one note, here it is:
    We roared up the last stretch and there it was; the Tommies hadn’t had time to haul down the German flag, which was still flying in the front garden. Halting, I looked around, expecting some final ambush.
    Nothing in sight, not a round came our way. No mad lawnmower sounds. I probed cautiously around the building. We'd done it and the coast was clear, but still, there was none of SF's usual confirmation message that we had completed the mission. Obviously, simply reaching the stated objective -  even being in sole possession of it - was not enough. Evidently I needed to find and kill more Tommies, somewhere in the vicinity.


    U was disappointed that u had have to find another enemy and kill them to get victory. Yeah, it's hard especially during rain.
    BUT
    It is from report "Viller-Bocage Pz.IV H"
    Suddenly, the word came through that the mission had been won! How, I don’t know, since I had reached Villers but not penetrated it. Had some of the Tigers got through? Or had the panzer grenadiers done the trick?
    The British seemed to have a good hold on Villers. So how we came to win –even before my own tank had been clobbered - I’m not too clear.

    This time u was disappointed that u got victory too soon, inspite there were many "Tommies" Smile
    As u can see users are always right Cool
    I've added another trigger of victory. So, now if u came to the city hall(u're always name it as Hotel de Ville) then victory achieved.

    PS
    Did u see this small masterpiece by will73? It is fully destroyable building. Just for interesting shoot at him with HE shell. It was the final cut of the mission and polygon itself. Without this building polygon would not be completed.
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    33lima
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    Re: Mission: Battle of Villers-Bocage (Pz.VI "Tiger")

    Post by 33lima on Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:54 pm

    No, I didn't see the outdoor theatre! I by-passed that open area as fast as I could - there were too many nasty people there, including at least one with the PIAT, like the guy on the rigth in that screenshot.

    I think the British infantry were performing a re-enactment of Ancient Roman games, you know, the ones where gladiators kill wild animals - Tigers, in this case. They got one Tiger so I decided to skip the show! Now, if the show had been throwing Christians to the lions (or Tigers), that would have been ok! Smile
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    Re: Mission: Battle of Villers-Bocage (Pz.VI "Tiger")

    Post by lockie on Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm


    I've found video devoted to the first mission. Author is impostor forlife. Seems to me, this mission is one of the first, which author played. He needs to re-adjust mod installation to get aspect 16:9 and re-adjust game graphics to enable the grass. He didn't read the briefing and didn't know how to force gunner shoot only with maingun or MG, but thanks to the Tiger's thick armor he was about to get a victory in the mission, when enemy bullet interrupted his journey shooter
    Anyway this a good video, coz shows - user must read the briefing or he will be almost out of any useful info.
    I see that mission could be complicated and improved, coz there were some messages like "Cromwell"/light tank squad destroyed inspite there were still alive. And perhaps the "fail conditions" should be more strict/harder.

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    Re: Mission: Battle of Villers-Bocage (Pz.VI "Tiger")

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